HomeGun Nuts in ActionWatch This Philosophy Professor Reveal the Best Way to Deal With Open Carry Ammosexuals (Video)

Watch This Philosophy Professor Reveal the Best Way to Deal With Open Carry Ammosexuals (Video)

A philosophy professor has outlined what could possibly be the best way to deal with open carry ammosexuals terrorizing businesses by toting around loaded assault rifles. Since there is no way to know if the person sauntering about with heavy weaponry is a “good guy with a gun” or a “bad guy with a gun,” Jack Russell Weinstein points out that ” It is rational to be afraid of someone with a weapon, especially if you know nothing about them.”

Unfortunately, open carry activists disagree, asserting that people should automatically assume the scary-looking individual engaging in public blasturbation is a good guy–you know, because he has a gun and stuff.

Weinstein has a solution when dealing with these wannabe Rambos:

My proposal is as follows: we should all leave. Immediately. Leave the food on the table in the restaurant. Leave the groceries in the cart, in the aisle. Stop talking or engaging in the exchange. Just leave, unceremoniously, and fast.

But here is the key part: don’t pay. Stopping to pay in the presence of a person with a gun means risking your and your loved ones’ lives; money shouldn’t trump this. It doesn’t matter if you ate the meal. It doesn’t matter if you’ve just received food from the deli counter that can’t be resold. It doesn’t matter if you just got a haircut. Leave. If the business loses money, so be it. They can make the activists pay.

Following this procedure has several advantages. First, it protects people. Second, it forces the businesses to really choose where their loyalties are. If the second amendment is as important as people claim, then people should be willing to pay for it. God knows, free speech is tremendously expensive.

Third, this proposal has the added advantage of taking the activists seriously. Most gun-rights activists describe a world of tremendous dangers. Guns, they repeatedly tell us, are the only thing between home invasion, rape, murder, and government intrusion. Okay, well if that’s true, then we bystanders should be equally afraid, and react instantaneously to keep away the chaos and the violence. We learned to be afraid from the gun-rights supporters. They have gotten everything they wanted.

He further explained his thoughts in a YouTube video. Watch it below:

What do you think, AATTPers? Is it stealing if you are leaving without paying out of fear for your own safety?

h/t: Liberaland

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About John Prager

John Prager
John Prager is an unfortunate Liberal soul who lives uncomfortably in the middle of a Conservative hellscape and likes to refer to himself as an "island of reason in a sea of insanity." While he is not a fan of politicians, period, he has developed a deep-seated hatred for the bigotry, fear mongering, and lies of the Right Wing. John also works as a warden at one of Barry Soetoro's FEMA re-education camps and as a HAARP weather control coordinator. He can be reached at [email protected] if you have any questions or comments.
  • Joe Jones

    This is why I carry a gun, you stupid liberal gun grabbers!

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  • Rob

    ” It is rational to be afraid of someone with a weapon, especially if you know nothing about them.”

    No, it isn’t. The word for that is “bigoted.” Unless one considers it to be rational to be afraid of someone who’s black, especially if you know nothing about them.

  • Raji the Green Witch

    He never ONCE mentioned HOW to tel a good guy with a gun from a bad guy with a gun that was 100% accurate, ALL the time.

  • smb11

    See, Hooper.
    We can’t tell that you are a homophobe. That is, not until you open your mouth or get on your computer. Then it is obvious!

  • smb11

    Read “The Second Amendment, A Biography” by Michael Waldman.
    Michael Waldmen is president of the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law, a nonpartisan law and policy institute that focuses on improving the systems of democracy and justice (from the dust cover)
    Also from the dust cover, this is the review by David Frum, the George W. Bush speechwriter.
    “Through most of American History, The Second Amendment guaranteed the right to be a citizen soldier, not an individual vigilante. With wit and erudition, Michael Waldman tells the story of how the Amendment’s meaning was turned upside down and inside out.”
    From Sean Wilentz, professor of history at Princeton University.
    “Partisan pseudohistories of gun regulation and the Second Amendment abound. Michael Waldman’s excellent book slices through the propaganda with candor as well as scholarship.”

    • Joe Jones

      No thanks. Just from the quote you selected, you have identified the book as some load of crap written by a liberal twit.

  • Joe Jones

    I just returned from Wendy’s at the Pilot Truck Stop in my home town. I walked in wearing blue jeans with a black belt, a black T-shirt with an “Islands” restaurant logo on the front and back, and my loaded Glock 27 in an out-of-the-waistband molded holster from Mike’s Tactical.

    I had a #2 combo with a Dr. Pepper and a jr. chocolate frosty.

    No one ran out of the place. No one dove behind a counter, or tipped up a table in fear of their lives. No one secretly called 9-1-1. No one really reacted at all, although I did notice that the woman at the cash register and one other employee noticed the firearm carried on my hip.

    Open carry is legal here in Kentucky.

    I guess the learned philosopher in the video above is basically full of crap.

  • Joe Jones

    Dave, who is your post directed at? The “learned philosopher” in the video?

  • Joe Jones

    I’m sorry. Drugs are not a part of my life, however, I am certain that you are infinitely familiar with them.

  • Joe Jones

    I am sorry that you are incapable of following a simple thought.

  • Joe Jones

    Your mama apparently raised a daughter.

  • Joe Jones

    You are completely wrong about everything.

    Go to LECTLAW dot COM and read

    The Second Amendment: The Framers’ Intentions

  • Joe Jones

    Most liberals share your opinion.

  • Mistress Time

    I will leave you to decide what you feel is an emergency use for 911 and you will leave me to decide what I feel is an emergency use for 911. Which is what will happen all over America.

  • asphalt_cowboy

    Well this makes perfect sense to me, but why only stop at guns? Next time I see a black guy with a doo rag, I’m going to run out of the restaurant or store without paying claiming I was in fear of my life from the gang banging thug.

    • smb11

      If they guy was carrying, you have a case. If Cliven Bundy came into a restaurant, I would leave.

      • asphalt_cowboy

        I really don’t see the difference. Fear for my life is fear for my life, right?

        • smb11

          Is it a reasonable to fear a black man for being black?

          • Joe Jones

            You missed his point. Doo rags are used to indicate an affiliation with a street gang, black for “The Family”, red for “The Bloods,” Yellow for “Los Compadres,” blue for “The Crips,” etc.

          • smb11

            I wouldn’t patronize a known gang hangout.

            Why don’t we take race out of it and consider what to do if a punch of skinheads walked in.

            Yes, I would leave without eating if a bunch of skinheads walked in, but I would stop to pay quickly.

            Again, I wouldn’t patronize a known hangout for skinheads.

          • Joe Jones

            They don’t put up signs. A gang member can walk into ANY place at ANY time without warning.

          • smb11

            Yes, but considering I haven’t seen any gang members or skinheads in any restraunt in 55 years, I guess I have done a good job in my selection of places to eat.

          • Joe Jones

            You’ve seen them and sat next to them. They just didn’t let you know it.

          • asphalt_cowboy

            I thought the issue here was fear of injury and/or death.

          • Joe Jones

            Asphalt Cowboy – The issue in this discussion is from the learned elitist liberal professor in the video above, who states that when a law abiding citizen walks into a public place lawfully and openly carrying a firearm, you should get up and walk out without paying the bill. He maintains that your life is in imminent danger simply via the presence of a gun, and especially, a really scary evil black “assault rifle.”

          • asphalt_cowboy

            But the core issue is that the guns can kill you, thus a fear of dying. Those black guys kill people too, so is it not reasonable to also be in fear of my life if they’re in the same restaurant as I am?

          • Joe Jones

            If one embraces the liberal mindset that the mere presence of something that CAN kill justifies walking out of an establishment without paying the bill, then yes, the presence of a black man also justifies this fear, even though the particular black man standing near you may be the nicest man on the face of the Earth. Liberals function entirely on EMOTION. Cognitive thought and rational intelligence never enter into the equation for liberals.

      • Joe Jones

        If Cliven Bundy came into a restaurant where I was dining, I’d pick up his tab and shake his hand!

        • smb11

          I prefer people who follow the law, pay their bills and act in an environmentally responsible manner.
          I am not big on treasonous behavior.

          • Joe Jones

            Did you vote for Obama?

  • Joe Jones

    This site will not allow posting of links, so it is not possible to provide the sources available on the Internet which back up my position.

  • Joe Jones

    Psychological Projection is the impetus behind the liberals fears of private citizens being armed. They do not trust themselves with a gun, to act responsibly, and not just draw their weapon and “blow the guy away” for some minor offense. However, the phenomenon of psychological projection allows the person to assign those insecurities to another person, so that they do not have to face the FACT that their fears originate in their distrust of THEMSELVES carrying a gun.

    “If YOU carry a gun, I am afraid YOU will shoot someone!” In reality, they are stating that if THEY carried a gun, they do not believe they possess the self-control and self-discipline to leave the gun in the holster when confronted with a conflict, such as a road rage altercation.

    They do not trust THEMSELVES with a gun, and they cannot imagine that they are any less responsible, or posses any less self-control than the average citizen, so through psychological projection, they conclude that YOU cannot be trusted with a gun.

    This is an interesting psychological phenomenon found almost universally in liberals. It is part of what DEFINES them as liberals.

  • smb11

    We not only have to worry about the bad guy with a gun, we have to worry about the stupid guy with a gun. There have been an awful lot of “accidental shootings” reported recently. Yes, the statistics of being the victim of gun criminal negligence is small, but that is SMALL comfort if it happens to you.

    • Joe Jones

      Do you worry about the stupid guy with a car? There have been an awful lot of “accidental collisions” reported recently. Yes, the statistics of being the victim of automobile operator negligence is small, but that is SMALL comfort if it happened to you.

  • rayb_baby

    ” What a life you lead to be so frightened all the time”

    HAHAHAHAHA! Projection much!! It’s seems that YOU’RE the one too afraid to go out in public without a gun to “protect” yourself.

    • Joe Jones

      Carrying a gun is no different than carrying an umbrella when there is a possibility of rain. It is simply a tool that allows a citizen to meet deadly force with deadly force, should that become necessary. What will you unarmed girly-men meet deadly force with, when you are confronted by some drugged out thug with a knife or a gun? Peeing on his shoes will not protect you.

  • Joe Jones

    No. Registration is for the database necessary for nationwide confiscation of firearms. There is no other reason to register a gun.

    • smb11

      The reason to have a national database so that the government knows who to call up for militia duty as provided for in the Constitution.

  • Joe Jones

    “Simply walk away in protest without paying on the grounds that the Service Provider did not meet it’s obligation to provide you with a Safe and Comfortable Environment and deliver a Satisfactory Experience.”

    There is NO obligation on the part of any business owner to provide you with a “safe and comfortable environment.” That is lunacy. No restaurant is obligated to take measures to insure that you are not raped, stabbed, shot or killed while dining in their business. Even a BANK will tell you that they are not responsible for your personal safety. Barney Fife standing there in the poor fitting guard costume is there “to observe and report.” He is NOT there to defend your life, or to prevent a robbery, or even to make sure you are not thirsty. You are living in a dream world if you believe that any business has an obligation to provide for your safety.

    • smb11

      Restaurants and bars can be sued for serving drinks to a visibility intoxicated customer. In this case, they are required to act in the best interests of the safety of the public.

      • Joe Jones

        That means nothing. The drunk could be denied a drink by the bar and still go out and kill someone in a DUI crash. The bar is you are confusing responsibility for another person’s safety with the LIABILITY of creating the danger.

  • Joe Jones

    You must understand liberals. They are completely unaccountable for their actions, so they will call and describe an armed citizen in a Thrifty’s Drug Store to buy a double-scoop Rocky Road ice cream cone as a “possible terrorist.” They know that there will be NO repercussions for their knee-jerk reaction or their blatant LIES.

    • Jerome Puttler

      GTH

  • Joe Jones

    “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
    NO where does it say that every BODY should be strapped.”

    I am so tired of this liberal argument that is complete B.S.

    “The amendment has been hijacked by the arms manufacturers, NRA and every Loon that thinks that guns bring safety.”

    Uh huh. So … in the places where guns are forbidden, Chicago, Detroit, Oakland, St. Louis, Cleveland, etc., “SAFETY” is achieved by banning guns.

    “People with the need for additional protection have carried for years.”

    Excuse me, but who are YOU to determine that MY LIFE is less valuable than the life of “People with the need for additional protection” ? I suppose I should conclude that YOUR LIFE is not worth allowing you to have the means to preserve and defend it, since you are not one of the elite “People with the need for additional protection.”

    “Now …..OPEN CARRY. Will the GOOD GUYS wear a special BRAND on their forehead..how will we know .”

    Take off the liberal blinders. That is how you will know.

    • smb11

      Why do you disregard the “well-regulated militia” provisions in Article I, Section 8 and the Second Amendment.
      It demonstrates the intent of the Founding Fathers. It isn’t liberal B.S. It is in the Constitution.

    • Robert Kennedy

      You ignorant scumbag, the only rational people around are liberals. Sadly not all of them, but one certainty, there is no such thing as a rational conservative. You all wear blinders.

  • Pingback: On Voting Republicans Out Of Office - Page 506

  • Joe Jones

    So YOU are suggesting that we shoot any citizen who lawfully exercises his 2nd amendment right.

  • Joe Jones

    Shhhh… don’t tell him that law abiding citizens sometimes carry a personal defense firearm even when the local laws which DO NOT trump Constitutional Rights forbid such activity. He is certain that everyone in his restaurant eating a peaceful meal is unarmed.

  • Joe Jones

    My guns must be defective. They have never killed or injured anyone.

  • Joe Jones

    Is your definition of a “gunman” a law-abiding citizen lawfully carrying a self-defense firearm?

    • Tim Yagley

      Joe Jones, thank you!!! I knew if we gave you enough rope you’d finally “hang” yourself. Tell me Joe, how are we, the average American, who went into the coffee shop for breakfast with our families, able to discern the gunman from the law-abiding citizen lawfully carrying a self-defense firearm? Are you wearing a uniform that clearly states you’re a good guy? Are the bad guys wearing black hats? Tell me Joe, please, please, please, tell me how I’m supposed to know you’re a good guy??? That’s the crux of the issue Joe, you know it, and I know it. You can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys. It’s all about trust. The only people I trust with a gun are the people I personally know. If I don’t know you, I don’t trust you, and to protect my family I must assume that you intend to do me harm with your gun. QED.

      • Joe Jones

        Tim. Why do you have automobile insurance?

        • Tim Yagley

          My Right to live free from fear does not translate into you carrying a firearm. Your paranoia draws that conclusion.

          • Joe Jones

            You have no “Right” to live free from fear. That is a delusion on your part.

      • Joe Jones

        >”Joe Jones, thank you!!! I knew if we gave you enough rope you’d finally “hang” yourself.”

        If you say so, then it must be true.

        >”Tell me Joe, how are we, the average American, who went into the coffee shop for breakfast with our families, able to discern the gunman from the law-abiding citizen lawfully carrying a self-defense firearm? Are you wearing a uniform that clearly states you’re a good guy? Are the bad guys wearing black hats? Tell me Joe, please, please, please, tell me how I’m supposed to know you’re a good guy???”

        When you are UNARMED and sitting in that coffee shop, are you then able to make this distinction between the good guys and the bad guys while watching presumably UNARMED people walk into the coffee shop, even though they may in fact be good guys who are concealed-carrying, OR bad guys who have a pistol in their waistband with plans to rob the store and kill all of the witnesses? Why does the fact that a person is open-carrying change your risk factor?

        (Hint: Bad guys don’t generally carry their pistols in a holster on their hips.)

        >”That’s the crux of the issue Joe, you know it, and I know it. You can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys. It’s all about trust.”

        You are correct. And it doesn’t matter if they walk in with the pistol openly carried, or concealed. So why does it make a difference TO YOU?

        >”The only people I trust with a gun are the people I personally know. If I don’t know you, I don’t trust you, and to protect my family I must assume that you intend to do me harm with your gun. QED.”

        Lots of people know martial arts. Are you so paranoid that you view every stranger as someone who is moments away from round-housing you into a coma?

        A person does NOT need to be carrying a gun, to be a threat to you and your family. THAT is the point.

    • smb11

      How are we to know if the person carrying a gun is a good guy with a gun, a bad guy with a gun or a stupid guy with a gun? With only seconds to react, it is safer to treat anyone openly carrying a weapon as a possible threat and leave the area.
      Seconds can mean the difference between life and death.

      • Joe Jones

        >”How are we to know if the person carrying a gun is a good guy with a gun, a bad guy with a gun or a stupid guy with a gun? With only seconds to react, it is safer to treat anyone openly carrying a weapon as a possible threat and leave the area. ”

        Criminals generally do not carry their guns openly. They have records, and the cops know them. So they conceal their firearms, which allows them to walk to their target of their next robbery with the likelihood that they will not be stopped by a cop.

        I would think that you would fear concealed carriers MORE, since criminals generally DO NOT open carry their illegally owned, stolen firearms.

        >”Seconds can mean the difference between life and death.”

        Absolutely. However, you waste valuable seconds sitting in a booth where a criminal who has walked in with a concealed firearm is waiting for his opportunity to approach the register, whereas, if he were to walk in carrying his firearm openly, you would INSTANTLY begin calculating the risk to your person by watching his body language, listening to his voice, looking at his clothing, looking for the rear exit …

        I am at a loss to explain why you see OPEN CARRY as a bigger threat than CONCEALED CARRY.

    • Robert Kennedy

      Prove in advance that the gun nut IS law abiding or STFU.

  • Joe Jones

    You’re right. With an unarmed society, people IMMEDIATELY recognize a criminal with a gun entering a store or a public area. It is so obvious, when no one else is armed. Uh huh. Go with that.

    • smb11

      If only the police and the criminals carry guns in public, if someone carriers a gun and is not in uniform, it is a safe bet that the person with the gun may be a criminal and it is a good idea to get out of the way and call 911.

  • Joe Jones

    It is liberals. They dream up some corny word that makes them giggle like prepubescent teenage boys liking at some girl’s tit for the first time, and they pat each other on the back for having “gotten in a good one” on the real Americans. It is best to ignore them.

  • Joe Jones

    So … your solution to ending gun violence is to INITIATE gun violence.

  • Steve Cain

    Number one, my parents are DEAD you SOB! My Dad fought in WWII to keep idiots like you free, so you get to say NOTHING about my parents.
    Now I’m also 220 lbs and have training in Ishinryu Karate. In a legitimate hand to hand fight I can hold my own. However, I’m also smart enough to know I can’t win against an AK 47. Therefore, I am going to do the intelligent thing and get away as quickly as possible and let the people who are trained to handle idiots with guns take care of the situation. You are like the wrestler Zach Gowen here, you don’t have a leg to stand on.

    • Joe Jones

      Steve. Please provide your definition of a citizen with a gun who is NOT an “idiot.”

      • Steve Cain

        Any duly deputized member of law enforcement or on duty military.

        • Joe Jones

          Fine. Explain HOW you will accomplish this state in America. It is one thing to dream about living in Utopia. It is quite another to actually accomplish it.

          By the way. Germany was recently a government that existed with ONLY “Any duly deputized member of law enforcement or on duty military” being allowed to have a firearm. Ask the Jews how that worked out for them.

          • Joe Jones

            Crickets…

  • Steve Cain

    Amen!

  • Robert Gerhart

    So Weinstein’s recommendation is to act totally upon ignorance. You may not be able to tell the good guys from the bad guys who open carry (here’s a hint – the bad guys tend to start doing bad stuff), but how does Prof. Weinstein tell the difference between a good guy and a bad guy carrying concealed? What does he recommend then? (Here’s another hint: the bad guys tend to bring their guns into the open as a prerequisite to doing the aforementioned bad stuff.) Good guys have little to fear about carrying openly, whereas, bad guys are probably unlicensed, would be committing a crime in most places by simply having the weapon, and would be drawing unwanted attention to themselves long before starting any “bad stuff”. In other words, if you’ve had time to notice the weapon and it still isn’t being used, you are probably safe. Even a bad guy who has a gun but doesn’t use it is not inflicting any harm (unless, perhaps, you chose to make a big scene of it and skip out on your dinner tab, at which time you might piss him off enough to start doing bad things).

    As such, this recommendation has little to do with safety and everything to do with one man’s irrational fears.

    • Steve Cain

      Hey idiot! Adam Lanza didn’t hide his Mommy’s guns when he walked into Sandy Hook.

      • Robert Gerhart

        Hey idiot! Thanks for finding an example that supports my point; bad guys tend to start shooting.
        What would have saved more lives: good guys carrying open or otherwise, or Weinstein’s “stiff you waitress” advice?

        • Steve Cain

          What would have saved more lives? Why don’t you ask that good guy with a gun at the Walmart in Las Vegas? Oh that’s right, he’s DEAD!

      • Joe Jones

        Sandy Hook was staged. I am surprised that there are people out there who still believe that it was real. I guess it is true: “You really can fool some of the people ALL of the time.”

        • Steve Cain

          You believe that Alex Jones crap? Well you just proved you have a lower IQ than a rock. You are NOT to be taken seriously. In fact, you are now going to be ignored.

          • Joe Jones

            Steve. I have a standing offer of $25,000.00 in CASH, payable to the first person who can provide me with IRREFUTABLE PROOF that Sandy Hook was real. Go for it! Prove Sandy Hook was real and I will pay you $25,000.00. Google it! My offer is now NINETEEN MONTHS OLD and NO ONE has attempted to collect the money.

            Now, irrefutable proof is NOT “I saw it on TV” or “I read about it on the Internet” or “My friend’s half-sister’s hair dresser’s cousin knows a guy who bought a newspaper from some dude in Oakland who says that he used to live next door to a woman who claims her friend lost a niece at Sandy Hook.” That is just bull crap.

            Look up the definition of IRREFUTABLE PROOF, and then bring me what you have. If it proves to be IRREFUTABLE I will hand you $25,000.00 in CASH.

  • Madbunny

    One of my suggestions a while back was that at ‘pro gun’ events we should get a large group of minorities, Black, Mexican, heck, even Arab-Americans… and have them show up dressed up in all the latest battle gear just like the white guys that are rather disproportionately represented.

    Just sit in the back,as a group, listen quietly, take notes and leave quietly.

  • Joe Jones

    Jack Russell Weinstein is a moron. If you have the politically correct rose-colored glasses riveted to your skull, I suppose it is possible that you WILL NOT (Read: not that you ‘CANNOT’) discern the difference between a law-abiding citizen exercising his 2nd amendment right, and a criminal intent on using a firearm to harm or kill people.

    “Since there isno way to know if the person sauntering about with heavy weaponry is a “good guy with a gun” or a “bad guy with a gun,” – Jack Russell Weinstein

    REALLY, Jack? You really do not possess the mental capacity to recognize a threat when you see one? Do you cower in fear when a man walks into a store wearing a gun, who also happens to be wearing a police uniform? Do you believe that his profession as a cop magically prevents him from drawing that weapon if he chooses, to work out anger issues? You are intellectually dishonest, and deliberately dense when you try to pass off your unreasonable fear of guns (Google: HOPLOPHOBE) as some sort of enlightened understanding of people who support and practice the free exercise of their 2nd Amendment Right.

    LEAVE when you see a man with a gun. I wouldn’t want any panty-waist girly men around anyway, if something did go down. With you gone, I wouldn’t have to weight the option of protecting your unarmed a*s from a REAL criminal.

  • Madbunny

    Send the bill to the guy with the assault weapon that chased people out. Feel free to call the cops. I hear open carry ammosexuals love it when cops get called.

    • Joe Jones

      Would that make YOU a “victimsexual”?

      • Madbunny

        I’m curious about why you feel comfortable creating a positive association between yourself and rapists.

        To answer your question though: No. It doesn’t.

        • Joe Jones

          I didn’t mean you specifically. YOU carry. I was talking about the unarmed liberals who are giggling like teenagers at their newest lame label “ammosexuals.” Since they insist on NOT being armed, does that make THEM “victimsexuals?”

          • Madbunny

            Thanks at least for making the distinction that not all liberals are the same.
            I don’t know what area of the country you live in, but I’m sure there are plenty of subgroups around you that wear their affiliation on their sleeve.
            Here let me give you a really oversimplified example.
            If you’re in San Francisco and you see a businessman walking out of a building do you automatically assume he’s gay? Hopefully not since pretty much all businessmen dress the same. If you see another guy walking out of the building wearing a skirt and a rainbow t-shirt would you then assume he’s gay? Probably. That’s because he’s dressing in such a way as to advertise his homosexual preference. Or just dresses really poorly. Or maybe he’s a republican looking for votes. Those guys will say anything.
            Be honest for a moment and you’ll probably agree. Whether the guy is actually gay or not doesn’t really matter so much as the fact that he’s dressing in such a way as to advertise it.
            Now if you see me walking out of a building your first thought would probably be: “I wonder why that biker is wearing a business suit.”
            People who have taken to wearing tactical vests with assault rifle clones are effectively advertising that they’re really, really into guns. The same way that guy in a dress is advertising that he’s probably really into other guys.
            In other words: ammosexual.
            First impression matter. If the first impression I see of you is you walking into an ice cream shop with a long rifle I’m going to assume you’re an idiot ammosexual that is really really into your guns. Then I’ll leave and probably call the cops to tell them some dude with a long rifle just walked into an ice cream shop… because seriously who the ‘fck needs a long rifle to walk into an ice cream shop?
            Not normal healthy people that’s for sure.

          • Joe Jones

            In a free society, the word “need” does not come into play. Should I be able to determine whether you “need” a $90,000.00 car? Should I have the final say as to whether or not you “need” a 5,000 sq. ft. home? Do you “need” more than one pair of shoes?

            If a free citizen decides to walk into an ice cream shop while carrying his handgun or rifle or shotgun LAWFULLY IN A NON-THREATENING MANNER, than there is no consideration of the “need” given to the situation. He is a free citizen, and neither YOU nor I can define his need for anything.

          • Madbunny

            It seems you have a basic lack of understanding. It’s rather obvious thanks to your immature red herring arguments.
            Openly displayed weapons are by definition threatening. When I was younger I tried bowhunting for a few years. Never did particularly well, but I gave it an honest effort.
            If I were to walk into a candy shop with a compound bow, and nocked serrated hunting tips on ready to go; that Would be threatening by definition. Why is that? Because bringing in weapons that are designed to hunt and kill into a place that isn’t supposed to happen is inappropriate.
            As it so happens it would also be illegal in most places, care to guess why that is?
            The truth is you and your ammosexual friends have the right in some places to carry around your toys. That right isn’t consequence free. The consequence of you and your friends doing that will wind up costing whatever place of business you decide to play in.

          • Joe Jones

            >”Openly displayed weapons are by definition threatening. ”

            So when the cop walks into the Walgreens to pick up his wife’s prescription, he is THREATENING you?

            >”If I were to walk into a candy shop with a compound bow, and nocked serrated hunting tips on ready to go; that Would be threatening by definition.”

            I agree. Gun owners walk in with a gun in a holster. Much like your arrows would be in your quiver.

            >” Why is that? Because bringing in weapons that are designed to hunt and kill into a place that isn’t supposed to happen is inappropriate.”

            And yet, criminals do it anyway.

            >”The truth is you and your ammosexual friends have the right in some places to carry around your toys. That right isn’t consequence free. The consequence of you and your friends doing that will wind up costing whatever place of business you decide to play in.”

            If liberals want to run away because a law-abiding armed citizen walks through the door, that is their choice.

          • Madbunny

            Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.
            However, cops being part of a respected and well regulated trained system with oversight, unlike the chowderheads ammosexuals that feel the need to run around with a long rifle; I can deal with it.
            Tell what though, since you’ve already admitted that you can’t tell the difference between a crazy person with a gun and a non-crazy person outside of a uniform; it seems that you just don’t want to admit that you’re on the stupid side of this argument.
            Like I said, ammosexuals have their rights, and there is a cost to that, that cost just happens to be the loss of business to whatever establishment they walk into, along with frequent interrogations by the police as to why they’re running around with weapons.
            I know that you like pretending that this is something that should extend to all citizens, but the truth of the matter is, it isn’t. As soon as you get groups of minorities doing the same thing watch the law suddenly change. Just like it did under Reagan in California when the Black Panthers started doing it. It’ll change so fast your head will spin.

          • Joe Jones

            >”Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.”

            and YOU are arguing that your life is less valuable that a cop’s life, so YOU should not be able to carry a gun to protect YOUR LIFE.

            >”However, cops being part of a respected and well regulated trained system with oversight,”

            Dream on! Cops are generally LESS trained in the use of firearms than the average law-abiding gun owner.

            >”unlike the chowderheads ammosexuals that feel the need to run around with a long rifle; I can deal with it.”

            Is it a bad thing, that they choose to carry a long rifle, to invite other citizens to enter into a civil conversation about private firearms ownership and carry?

            >”Tell what though, since you’ve already admitted that you can’t tell the difference between a crazy person with a gun and a non-crazy person outside of a uniform;”

            Now you are putting words into my mouth. I never stated that a uniform makes a person a “good guy” In fact, I said just the opposite. The uniform and badge do NOTHING to prevent that citizen (momentarily dressed in a cop outfit) from using his gun to harm or kill people, should he decide to do so.

            >” it seems that you just don’t want to admit that you’re on the stupid side of this argument.”

            Oh, that is because I am on the RIGHT side of the argument.

            >”Like I said, ammosexuals have their rights, and there is a cost to that, that cost just happens to be the loss of business to whatever establishment they walk into, along with frequent interrogations by the police as to why they’re running around with weapons.”

            As cops become more enlightened, they are realizing that there IS a difference between a citizen who is open-carrying a firearm, and a criminal who is carrying a firearm. If you are really bored, go to YouTube and search for videos of open-carry confrontations with law enforcement officers.

            >”I know that you like pretending that this is something that should extend to all citizens, but the truth of the matter is, it isn’t.”

            Uh huh. So … some pigs are more equal than others. Is that it?

            >”As soon as you get groups of minorities doing the same thing watch the law suddenly change. Just like it did under Reagan in California when the Black Panthers started doing it. It’ll change so fast your head will spin.”

            Watch, as the country eventually goes to Constitutional Carry, allowing ALL citizens to carry, unless they are convicted felons or they have a history of a dangerous mental disorder … you know … like, being a liberal.

            You may think you are on the right side of the argument, but nearly 30 years of American history regarding CCW permits says otherwise!

            Go to GUN-NUTTERY (dot) com and click on PROGRESS IN RIGHT-TO-CARRY to see how badly you ARE on the wrong side of the argument.

          • Madbunny

            “Madbunny Joe Jones • 2 days ago

            Can you tell the difference between a martial artist and a guy walking around with a ninja sword? ”
            —————————-
            Joe Jones Madbunny • 2 days ago
            Nope. That is why I carry a gun.
            —————————-
            Your words.
            So how can I tell the difference between you and some nutjob out to shoot or rob the place I’m at? Not possible. The intelligent thing to do is to leave and let the cops figure it out. If stores would rather have their business than mine, that’s their decision.
            The truth is you can’t tell the difference between a crazy person with a gun and a non-crazy person with a gun. I’m not sure why you seem to have difficulty admitting this. It doesn’t really matter though, does it?
            I don’t dispute that you have the right to carry, what I dispute is the need to do so openly.

          • Joe Jones

            >”So how can I tell the difference between you and some nutjob out to shoot or rob the place I’m at? Not possible.”

            Try this. I will be standing there, waiting for a table with my firearm in a holster on my side, and probably far more interested in looking at the menu and the pies in the display case, while the bad guy will have the gun in his hand with his finger on the trigger, he will have a look of desperation on his face and his heightened level of anxiety will be readily obvious, and he will most likely be yelling profanities. I know that it is nearly impossible to spot these differences, when you are looking at life through rose-colored glasses.

            >”The intelligent thing to do is to leave and let the cops figure it out. If stores would rather have their business than mine, that’s their decision.”

            The INTELLIGENT thing to do is to observe the armed citizen’s appearance and behavior, and use your BRAIN to determine whether or not he is a threat.

            >”The truth is you can’t tell the difference between a crazy person with a gun and a non-crazy person with a gun.”

            No. That is not the truth. That is a liberal myth.

            >”I’m not sure why you seem to have difficulty admitting this.”

            I do not own a pair of rose-colored glasses.

            >”It doesn’t really matter though, does it?
            I don’t dispute that you have the right to carry, what I dispute is the need to do so openly.”

            The “need” boils down to quite simply the fact that concealed carry required a different mode of attire. On a hot summer day with temps in the 100+ range, I do NOT want to wear a coat just so some uber-sensitive liberal twit can feel comfortable at not seeing a gun that I would be carrying anyway.

          • Madbunny

            A coat? You really don’t have any experience with ccw do you? Maybe you’ve been watching too much Magnum PI or something.

          • Joe Jones

            I know, a shirt over a shirt, or a shirt with a CC slot to a rib pocket, etc. I know all about the CCW options. Nice trey though. The point is, there is NO VALID REASON I should have to go to the extra effort of concealing a firearm just because a bunch of whiny hoplophobe liberals piss their pants when they see a gun. I carry. I carry LEGALLY. I am in FULL COMPLIANCE with the law when I carry. If girly-men don’t like that, it is NOT MY PROBLEM.

  • Steve Cain

    My feelings entitle me to not have to be afraid when I shop or go out to eat. My feelings entitle me to a safe environment. My feelings entitle me to walk out and call the police when I see an idiot with a gun walk in the place I am at. My feelings entitle me to call you an idiot!

  • Steve Cain

    You really are a fool! You walk in armed you better believe you have to prove you’re not a mass murderer. But you won’t have to prove it to me, you’re going to have to prove it to the squad of police that will storm the place after I call 911! You obviously have never heard of Columbine, Aurora, Colorado, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Northern Illinois University. Look them up your yokel! You wonder how I can tell you’re an idiot? Responses like the one you made here.

    • Joe Jones

      LiberalThink: You walk in with a cell phone, you’d better prove to me that you are not an obscene phone call addict! I will assume you are a pedophile and a stalker until you prove otherwise.

      “You walk in armed you better believe you have to prove you’re not a mass murderer.” – Steve Cain

      So … My walking in, sitting down, asking for a glass of water and a menu would not give you a clue? Google: “HOPLOPHOBE” and then go to Expedia and look upo “Psychological Projection.” You do not fear a gun in MY hands. You fear a gun in YOUR OWN HANDS.

      • Steve Cain

        Not only is that a strawman, it’s a PISS POOR strawman. You don’t even deserve the consolation prizes they give the losers on a game show. Now go away and let the ADULTS talk.

      • Steve Cain

        Not only is that a strawman, it’s a PISS POOR STRAWMAN! It isn’t even good enough to get the consolation prizes they have for the losers on TV game shows. Now go away and let the ADULTS talk.

        • Joe Jones

          You believe YOU are the adults? Hahahahaaaaa!!!

    • smb11

      Hey, Steve.
      You forgot to add the whole state of Florida.

  • Brad

    Typical liberal bilge from another low information liberal.

    • Steve Cain

      The only low intelligence person on here is you Brad/Susie/Hooper/Steve E or whatever fake name you post under.

  • Quint

    He’s busy cutting bait for me. Now, stop interrupting the half-assed astronaut so he can get some work done.

  • Quint

    “Do you have you are book out for the liberals here?”

    I don’t understand what *you’re*(YOU ARE) asking….

    Get back to swabbin’ the deck, Hooper!

  • ChrisB

    How do you spot a Tea Party member on forums?

    (Hint: check for spelling.)

  • Poiks

    Hooper gives him fellatio and thanks him for his service.

  • Poiks

    It’s “principle.” And if we’re going to measure on grammar, then you might as well learn how apostrophes work, too.

  • Poiks

    I’ve advocated exactly this for a while, but someone pointed out something that has made me rethink it with respect to restaurants: Apparently, it’s standard practice, in the restaurant business, for restaurants to charge servers for the cost of the check when a customers skips out on the bill. I didn’t know this, and it doesn’t necessarily warrant a change in approach, but it is something you might want to take into consideration. Other scenarios (like shopping, etc) are no-brainers. Just get up and get away, and later on let the establishment’s management know exactly why you did so.

    • Steve Cain

      You can always eventually pay the bill but your life trumps money.

  • Erik

    I just don’t get the whole open carry thing. I don’t go around reading porn in public, just to exercise my 1st Amendment rights, and I don’t understand why these idiots have to show off their guns in the same way.

    • Madbunny

      I think I’m going to exercise my 1st amendment rights by photoshopping dildos in the place of assault riffles on open carry idiots. Seems more honest that way. Thanks for the idea.

      • Joe Jones

        While you are at it, why don;t you Photoshop large red targets on the chests and backs of Unarmed liberals in those photos. Since you are all targets for a criminal who ignores your silly “feel good” gun laws, I think it is appropriate that you properly represent yourselves as well.

        • smb11

          Since I have lived 55 years without being assaulted or the victim of gun violence, I don’t feel that I have a target on my back from criminals. However, if I came across an open carry bully, I would feel I have a target on my back until I left the store.
          I have three neighbors with guns and they keep their guns in a gun safe unless they are going hunting or to the target range. They are safe, responsible gun owners. The open carry people are bullies.

          • Joe Jones

            You choose to feel “bullied” by open carriers. They really don’t give you a second thought. The pistol on their hip is a TOOL, like the multi-tool in the leather case, the pocket knife, the comb, the pen, the nail clippers and the cellular phone. You are not being “bullied” by someone who is simply wearing a pistol on his hip. Perhaps you should explore the reasons you feel intimidated by this. Do you feel “bullied” by the fun who rolls up next to your car at an intersection in a far more powerful automobile? Is he “bullying” you because his car has four times the horsepower and double the cost?

          • smb11

            A gun is a tool that is designed to kill. That is its purpose.
            The people who carry rifles into stores and restaurants are in-your-face bullies. They have already demonstrated that they don’t care about anyone else and that they don’t have the good sense God gave a gnat. There is no logical reason to carry a rifle in public unless your are going hunting or target shooting.

            I have less of an issue with people who have gone through the process of obtaining a concealed weapons permit, appropriate training and actually conceal their weapon. Bad guys with guns can melt into the crowd with good guys with guns.

            I’ve gone to dinner with an off-duty law enforcement officer who was carry a concealed gun. He is trained, he is level-headed and he is responsible.

            I have a problem with people who only talk about their rights and not their responsibilities. I would hope that anyone who carries a weapon doesn’t think of it just as a TOOL. I would hope that they realize what a grave responsibility it is to carry a weapon.

            Where in all the posts by open carry advocates do they talk about their responsibility in owning and carrying a weapon? Where in all their posts do they talk about the rights of others?

          • Joe Jones

            “A gun is a tool that is designed to kill. That is its purpose.”

            No. A gun is a tool designed to fire a lead projectile in a straight path along a predetermined trajectory and at a predetermined velocity for a predetermined distance. There is no other inherent characteristic in a gun’s design. You are confusing the gun owner’s decision to place a target into that bullet’s path with the fact that the bullet has a path to follow.

            “The people who carry rifles into stores and restaurants are in-your-face bullies.”

            Bullies? Really? Do they tell other customers to get out of their way? Do they point their rifles at other customers? Do they announce that anyone who interferes with their shopping experience will be shot? What makes them “bullies” in your mind? I view them as people who do not wish to leave an expensive rifle in an unattended car. Other than that, they are no different than any other shopper in the store.

            “They have already demonstrated that they don’t care about anyone else and that they don’t have the good sense God gave a gnat.”

            So … it is more sensible to leave the loaded weapon in an unattended vehicle?

            ” There is no logical reason to carry a rifle in public unless your are going hunting or target shooting.”

            The reason is simple. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. You do NOT “need” a reason to exercise a Right.

            Admit it, smb11. You are simply AFRAID of firearms.

            “I have less of an issue with people who have gone through the process of obtaining a concealed weapons permit, appropriate training and actually conceal their weapon.”

            Do you believe this CDW permit somehow magically prevents them from arbitrarily deciding to draw their weapon and shoot everyone in the place? In other words, do you believe that the CDW CONTROLS their behavior and OVERRIDES any compulsion they may have to work out their anger issues?

            “Bad guys with guns can melt into the crowd with good guys with guns.”

            Bad guys with guns can and DO also melt into the crowd with good guys WITHOUT guns,

            “I’ve gone to dinner with an off-duty law enforcement officer who was carry a concealed gun. He is trained, he is level-headed and he is responsible.”

            Uh huh. Do you believe that badge magically prevents that officer from misusing his firearm? Do you believe the badge makes him shoot straighter? Do you believe that the badge controls the officer’s temper?

            “I have a problem with people who only talk about their rights and not their responsibilities.”

            The responsibility of carrying a firearm is a given. Those who defend the right to keep and bear arms and those who carry a firearm already assume the responsibilities that go along with carrying a firearm … except for the criminals.

            “I would hope that anyone who carries a weapon doesn’t think of it just as a TOOL. I would hope that they realize what a grave responsibility it is to carry a weapon.”

            The very same can be said about anyone who leaves his home in an automobile. Yet, many people do not realize the responsibility that comes with their chosen activity. You are hoping that people somehow become super-human. In ANY scenario, there will always be irresponsible people participating in the activity.

            “Where in all the posts by open carry advocates do they talk about their responsibility in owning and carrying a weapon?”

            Everywhere.

            “Where in all their posts do they talk about the rights of others?”

            Which rights would those be?

          • smb11

            You say that gun rights advocates post EVERYWHERE about the responsibility of owning and carrying a weapon.
            If so, where are the posts? All I see are posts about their rights. One of your posts here, I believe, talked about your accepting liability responsibilities. That is the only post I have seen where any gun rights advocate wrote about responsibility.
            In response to a post about requiring a gun owner to have a separate insurance policy covering guns, the response was that this was a violation of a gun owner’s constitutional right because it would add to the cost of owning a gun.

          • Joe Jones

            What other Rights should require insurance policies?

          • smb11

            1) You didn’t answer the question re: where are the posts from gun rights advocates about responsibility that have been posted EVERYWHERE.
            2) What other Right has resulted in death or maiming, either intentionally or unintentionally?
            3) What other Right has allowed a 4 yr old to kill another child?

          • Joe Jones

            Accident happen. Should we remove your bathtub because some children drown in them?

          • smb11

            The person I know whose son drowned in the tub was charged with a felony and served time.
            How many of the “accidental” deaths do to guns are charged, prosecuted, convicted and serve time?

          • Joe Jones

            Try visiting the NRA site or any of the gun sites. The discussions all center around the responsibility that comes with carrying a gun.

          • smb11

            NRA and gun sites aren’t everywhere. Everywhere us a little bit bigger than gun sites.

          • Joe Jones

            Oh, gosh! you got me! Okay … you will NOT find gun information on the gay marriage and NAMBLA sites, or any other sites frequented by the terminally expendable.

          • smb11

            “Terminally expendable”

            Congratulations! Combine this statement with your previous posts, you have finally earned entrance into the “idiot with a gun club”.

          • Joe Jones

            Oh, gosh oh golly! Liberals NEVER talk about eliminating conservatives!

            My comment simply means that liberals are useless, and a waste of oxygen.

          • Joe Jones

            Ask me if I care about your opinion of me. And don’t even TRY to deny that liberals talk openly about shooting all of the conservatives, because you will expose yourself as a hypocrite.

          • smb11

            Some do and I have called them on it before. On AATTP, I objected to comments made about the suicide of the campaign worker who was involved in the break-in at Thad Cochran’s wife’s nursing home. Left or Right, we should all be able to agree that suicide is a tragedy. Apparently, the agreement that can be made between some on the left and right is that there are some people who aren’t worth the air they breath. From your “terminally expendable” comment, you seem to belong to this group.

            I don’t expect you to care about my opinion. From your comments, you don’t appear to care about people in general. If you don’t value a stranger’s life, you can’t be trusted to use good judgment with a gun.

          • Joe Jones

            Are the Muslim extremists who saw people’s heads off simply because they are Christian “worth the air they breathe?” Or would you agree with me that they are counted among the “terminally expendable?”

          • smb11

            In your statement ” the gay marriage and NAMBLA sites, or any other sites frequented by the terminally expendable”, it is clear who you are implying are the terminally expendable, and it isn’t Muslim extremists!

          • rayb_baby

            Why are you wasting your time debating this useless idiot?

          • smb11

            1) The disinfecting power of sunlight.
            2) Never let a logical fallacy be the last post.
            3) Always give the ethically challenged or logically challenged poster a chance to overcome his failings.
            4) There is always the chance that in the thread, the poster may say something useful.

          • rayb_baby

            1. Fail
            2. OK
            3. Fail
            4. Fail
            5. Right on! He DEFINITELY exposed himself there.
            6. Fail

          • smb11

            Well, one of his gun sites had the best section on long term food storage I have ever seen. I found that useful. It wasn’t why he listed the site, but it was useful nonetheless.

          • rayb_baby

            Here’s hopin’ we never get to the point where that IS useful. If we do, watch out for people like Joe. There will be bloodshed and that’s what they’re prepared for.

          • Joe Jones

            You truly are an idiot. If things get tot he point where people are scrounging for food, it will be the completely unprepared LIBERALS who will be roaming in packs, looking to take what the conservatives have stocked up for a rainy day, and people like YOIU will be shot dead as looters.

          • rayb_baby

            What? You don’t think that plenty of liberals have guns, too? We’re just not so afraid 24/7 that we feel the need to be packin’ all the time like you fascist idiots. If the time comes I’ll be carrying, too. I hope you have eyes in the back of your head! Yes, there will be bloodshed, but I’m sure that morons like you think they’re immune from it. NOT!!!!!

          • Joe Jones

            “If the time comes I’ll be carrying, too.” – rayb_baby

            Really? So, when you stop at a convenience store today for a bag of chips and a bottle of soda, and while you are in the store, some thug walks in to rob the place with the intent to leave NO WITNESSES, you will “be carrying?”

            You are a complete FOOL to believe that you will have ANY advance notice as to when you will suddenly and without warning find yourself in ned of a firearm on your body to defend your life. Do you believe the thug will allow you to go home and retrieve your firearm from your safe? Do you think he will stand there and wait for you to assemble it, load it, and slip it into a holster so you can carry it back to the store to shoot him? There is a word for morons like you. “VICTIMS.”

          • rayb_baby

            ” If things get tot he point where people are scrounging for food,”

            THAT’S what I was replying to, you f**king moron!

            Keep on living in fear 24/7, idiot1 I don’t!

          • rayb_baby

            ” If things get tot he point where people are scrounging for food, ……….”

            THAT’S what I was replying to! GET IT???? Obviously not! Idiots like you that live in fear 24/7 are the ones that feel the need to pack all of the time. I don’t live in fear like you do.

          • Joe Jones

            I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you are wishing that the gun locked away in your safe was in your hand instead.

          • rayb_baby

            Oh, go away, already! Let me worry about that ……………. but I’m not!

          • Joe Jones

            Good for you!

          • smb11

            Guns were invented to kill. To think anything else is bad history and bad logic.

          • Joe Jones

            We should get rid of guns. There was no killing before guns were invented. Guns are the problem.

          • Highlander

            Oh there was killing, guns just made it more efficient.

          • Joe Jones

            Guns were invented to extend the distance at which a human being can affect another human being, animal or object.

          • smb11

            Really? A little logic, please?
            Guns weren’t invented for target practice, so we can eliminate No. 3.
            Unless the inventors of guns were sadistic, we can eliminate wounding an animal as a reason.
            Guns were invented to kill animals and to maim or kill human beings.

          • Joe Jones

            Guns were invented to fire a projectile. Any use beyond that is not inherent in the invention of the gun. It is the human element which has been introduced into the equation.

            Is a knife “designed” to carve turkey? No. It is designed to provide a sharp edge for cutting. PERIOD. Only when a human applies that cutting ability to the carcass of a turkey, does the knife then become a turkey carver.

          • smb11

            Things are invented for a purpose.
            Guns were invented to fire a projectile in order to maim or kill.
            The purpose (or use) of an invention cannot be separated from the invention.

          • Highlander

            “Admit it, smb11. You are simply AFRAID of firearms.”

            Hate to speak for him (or her), but I would surmise that he (or she) is probably afraid of idiots with firearms.

          • Joe Jones

            So am I. That is why I carry a gun. Because there are idiots with firearms out there.

          • Highlander

            And when one sees you out and about with your openly carried gun, how do we know that you are not one of those idiots with a firearm?

          • Joe Jones

            You remove your politically correct rose-colored glasses and observe the way I am dressed and the way I behave. It will be obvious to everyone but the clueless.

          • Highlander

            The way you’re dressed? Do mass murderers dress a specific way that I’m unaware of? Or did you mean your not dressed the way a certain subset of our cultur dresses.

          • Joe Jones

            I am sorry that you do not possess the mental capacity to determine when another person is a threat. It must be terrible, to be unable to know the difference.

          • Highlander

            So how does the way a person’s dressed show wether they’re a threat or not? You still haven’t answered the question and I think you are avoiding answering it.

          • Joe Jones

            I have answered the question twice. Quit being a pest.

          • Highlander

            The way you are dressed!?!? Do mass murderers dress a particular way that I’m unaware of? Or do you mean the way a particular subset of our culture dresses? And the way you behave? The very fact that you are scared to go into a store without packing a rifle makes me very suspect of your behavior. In fact, if the way the open carry people in Texas have acted toward MDA show me anything, I should be worried about people like you

          • Joe Jones

            All of your silly assumptions. Where did I EVER say I walk into a place carrying a rifle? I carry a Glock 27, .40 Cal. pistol you mindless twit.

          • Highlander

            Again with the name calling Joe, tsk, tsk. So the very fact that you are scared to go into a store without packing a HANDGUN makes me suspect of your behavior. Also, please answer my question sir, how does the way you are dressed tell me anything, or was that a Freudian slip?

          • Joe Jones

            >”Again with the name calling Joe, tsk, tsk. ”

            Sorry. I have trouble feigning respect for those who are unworthy of it.

            >”So the very fact that you are scared to go into a store without packing a HANDGUN makes me suspect of your behavior.”

            >” No, dipshit. I am not “scared” to go into a store without a gun. I do it all the time. It is not a “Fact.” It is a wet dream in YOUR warped mind.

            The FACT that I CHOOSE to exercise my 2nd Amendment Right after living in the stinking cesspool of Socialism called COMMIEfornia for 40 years, means that I ENJOY being a CITIZEN, rather than a SUBJECT. I’m not “scared” of anything.

            >”Also, please answer my question sir, how does the way you are dressed tell me anything, or was that a Freudian slip?”

            Geez! Do I need to walk you through it by the hand? Are you telling me that you are INCAPABLE of applying a threat level to a person based on the way he is dressed? So a guy in a $500.00 suit presents the SAME threat level to you as the home boy with his pants sagging below his ass, the filthy wife beater T-shirt, an Oakland Raiders baseball cap and four silver teeth. Regardless of whether they are armed or not, YOUR BRAIN is INCAPABLE of viewing one of them as a greater POTENTIAL threat than the other. You really are a sorry piece of work.

          • Highlander

            “Sorry. I have trouble feigning respect for those who are unworthy of it.”

            Whereas I would say, that your attacking the messenger and not the message. By the way, you still haven’t answered me about how you can tell if a person is a threat or not, by how a person is dressed.

            ” No, dipshit. I am not “scared” to go into a store without a gun. I do it all the time. It is not a “Fact.” It is a wet dream in YOUR warped mind”

            Then why do you need to go into one now? You know if the NRA was a little less insane about things, then there might not be such a divide.

          • Joe Jones

            “Sorry. I have trouble feigning respect for those who are unworthy of it.”

            >”Whereas I would say, that your attacking the messenger and not the message.”

            The message is the belief held by the messenger.

            >”By the way, you still haven’t answered me about how you can tell if a person is a threat or not, by how a person is dressed.”

            Yes I have.

            >”Then why do you need to go into one now?

            I will assume that your question is, “Why do you need [a gun] to go into [a store] now?”

            I never expressed ANY need. I only stated that it is my choice.

            >”You know if the NRA was a little less insane about things, then there might not be such a divide.”

            The divide is caused by a segment of the American population that wants to deny another segment of the population their 2nd Amendment Right to keep and bear arms. Can you guess which side is causing the trouble?

          • Highlander

            You know what your right, I missed you response, my bad. But I do find it interesting that you chose the inner city black guy as a threat (don’t deny it, you couldn’t have made it plainer from your description), instead of the guy in the 500 dollar suit. Statistically, most mass murders are white men.

          • Joe Jones

            Did it ever occur to you that the guy in the %500 suit was ALSO BLACK? Who is the racist now?

          • Highlander

            Never said the word racist, and I never said the guy in the five hundred dollar suit was white, that’s your assumption. I just said that most mass murders are committed by white men, and you chose an inner city black guy as your example. Project much?

          • Joe Jones

            I never designated a race to tether guy until YOU assumed I was talking about a black guy. YOU are the racist. Or do you think that ONLY black guys dress and look that way?

          • Highlander

            Who’s a racist? I never called you one. The word came out of your mouth dude, not mine.

          • Joe Jones

            Nice try, but YOU applied the black race to my (deliberately) generic description of a thug with saggy pants and silver teeth. YOU could not imagine that he could have been white, or hispanic, or asian. YOU decided that I was talking about a BLACK guy.

          • smb11

            Overall, you have a 1.1% chance of being the victim of a violent crime per the study I listed in another post.

            Since there is no way to tell if the person carrying a weapon is a good guy with a gun, a bad guy with a gun, or a stupid jerk with a gun, I prefer to err on the side of caution and leave whenever a gun is present. Since there are others who believe as I do, this will affect business’s bottomline.

          • smb11

            I went to the FBI website for crime statistics.
            Note that violent crime includes murder, robbery, forcible rape and aggravated assault.

            There were an estimated 386.9 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2012, a rate that remained virtually unchanged when compared to the 2011 estimated rate. (See Tables 1 and 1A.)

          • Joe Jones

            What is your point?

          • smb11

            It is a reality check for you and an example of a quality source.

          • Joe Jones

            Source of what? “Violent crimes” means nothing. This stat gives no indication as to what percentage of them involved a gun.

          • smb11

            Have you passed the new FBI pistol qualification test? I would be more comfortable if everyone who owned a handgun passed the new FBI qualification test.

          • Joe Jones

            I have a CDW. I have demonstrated that I know how to properly handle a firearm and hit my target. The FBI test is a joke.

          • smb11

            Why is it a joke? I hate to be snarky, but you are entering the “idiot with a firearm” territory.
            Have you demonstrated that you can perform under pressure? Have your demonstrated that you can perform under multiple scenarios?
            Have you demonstrated that you can differentiate between a threat and a bystander under stress?

          • Joe Jones

            What special skills tests have you passed in order to exercise your First Amendment Right? What extraordinary skills should you be required to demonstrate in order to attend church services? What hurdles should you be required to clear before you are allowed to vote?

          • smb11

            When I can maim or kill someone with a word, then I will need to develop special skills to make sure I am able to refrain from doing so.
            When my attending church can maim or kill someone, then I should be required to have special skills to ensure that I don’t maim or kill people while attending church.
            Voting? REGISTRATION, just like guns should be.

          • smb11

            From Wikipedia: Bullying can be defined in many different ways. Bullying consists of four basic types of abuse – emotional (sometimes called relational), verbal, physical, and cyber.[7] It typically involves subtle methods of coercion such as intimidation
            Open Carry in a Mall fits the bill.

          • Mistress Time

            A gun is not a tool. A tool is a hammer. A gun is a weapon that is dangerous in many ways. Such as most open carry people have loaded guns. Loaded guns can go off. without meaning too. Loaded guns are dangerous in the hands of drunken fools who would usually have a fist fight, but lo and behold, now they have a gun. So they blow someone away because they were in the way of the bathroom door. And if you think it is an exaggeration, not by much. If you think that I am being bullied I am not. I was taught to shoot and clean guns at a young age. I can load bullets too. But most of all I was taught to respect the power of carrying a gun. What is says about me and what it doesn’t say. If someone did come in a restaurant ready to shoot someone. Who do you think they will take out first. The person who has a big red X on their back, the one that is carrying. How long would it take you to 1 assess the situation 2 get your gun after you put down your spaghetti fork 3 shoot someone who already has you in the bulls eye. You would be dead before 1. It is fun to think that this is the wild west and we are all Brett Maverick. But it is not that way. A decent person will always take one more second to pull the trigger, if they pull it at all. So unless you are really ready to shoot a human being. Before you think the whole scenario through. Make sure you can pull the trigger. If you don’t know, don’t openly carry. It is just asking for trouble.

          • Joe Jones

            Your fantasy scenario is not reality. As fort the drunken fool who is “now armed” are you suggesting that by forbidding law abiding citizens the right to keep and bear arms, that drunken fool would not be able to get his hands on a gun? Foolish thinking.

          • Joe Jones

            >”A gun is not a tool. A tool is a hammer. A gun is a weapon that is dangerous in many ways. ”

            A hammer can easily kill dozens of people. You can run out of bullets, but you can NEVER run out of hammer.

            >”Such as most open carry people have loaded guns. ”

            An unloaded gun is a paperweight.

            >”Loaded guns can go off. without meaning too.”

            No they cannot. People can misfire a weapon, but the gun has no ability to randomly fire on its own without human intervention.

            >”Loaded guns are dangerous in the hands of drunken fools who would usually have a fist fight, but lo and behold, now they have a gun. So they blow someone away because they were in the way of the bathroom door. And if you think it is an exaggeration, not by much.”

            You want gun laws written for drunken fools?

            >”If you think that I am being bullied I am not. I was taught to shoot and clean guns at a young age. I can load bullets too. But most of all I was taught to respect the power of carrying a gun. What is says about me and what it doesn’t say. If someone did come in a restaurant ready to shoot someone. Who do you think they will take out first. The person who has a big red X on their back, the one that is carrying.”

            Situational awareness. When I go into a restaurant with a gun on my hip, I sit in a position where a person coming in through the door cannot see it.

            >”How long would it take you to 1 assess the situation 2 get your gun after you put down your spaghetti fork 3 shoot someone who already has you in the bulls eye.”

            About one second.

            >”You would be dead before 1. It is fun to think that this is the wild west and we are all Brett Maverick. But it is not that way. A decent person will always take one more second to pull the trigger, if they pull it at all.”

            Wrong. The decision to pull the trigger (if necessary) is made before the gun is even drawn.

            >”So unless you are really ready to shoot a human being. Before you think the whole scenario through. Make sure you can pull the trigger. If you don’t know, don’t openly carry. It is just asking for trouble.”

            I would have no difficulty shooting someone who is a threat to my life. I could do it while sipping a Slurpee.

          • Joe Jones

            “Since I have lived 55 years without being assaulted or the victim of gun violence, I don’t feel that I have a target on my back from criminals.”

            You have a target on your back. it is fortunate that in 55 years, no criminal has selected YOUR target.

            “However, if I came across an open carry bully, I would feel I have a target on my back until I left the store. ”

            Why? What leads you to believe that a law-abiding citizen who is carrying a firearm for self-defense will have ANY motivation to shoot YOU?

            “I have three neighbors with guns and they keep their guns in a gun safe unless they are going hunting or to the target range. They are safe, responsible gun owners.”

            A gun in a safe is worthless for self-defense. I hope your three friends continue to move about without encountering an armed thug. I assure you, their very first thought would be, “Damn it! I left my gun in my SAFE!”

            ” The open carry people are bullies.”

            Please elaborate on this. How are you being “bullied” by my carrying a firearm in a holster?

          • Robert Kennedy

            “Why? What leads you to believe that a law-abiding citizen who is carrying a firearm for self-defense will have ANY motivation to shoot YOU?”
            Why, what leads you to believe that those citizens are law abiding? That’s far less likely than the unarmed people being law abiding.

          • Highlander

            “Why? What leads you to believe that a law-abiding citizen who is carrying a firearm for self-defense will have ANY motivation to shoot YOU?”

            Because we’re not mind readers. How do I know if the gentleman in front of me carrying the AR-15 is a Good Guy With a Gun (TM) or a Bad Guy With a Gun (TM)?

          • Joe Jones

            Well, I use my brain. You … just do the best you can.

          • Highlander

            Really? A guy walks in you business loaded, and you can tell wether or not he’s good or bad coming in? How so?

          • Joe Jones

            I’m going to let you think about that for a while.

          • Raji the Green Witch

            That is NOT an answer! It’s an insult.

          • Joe Jones

            No answer yet?

          • smb11

            What question are you asking Highlander?

          • Joe Jones

            I want him to answer his own question. I want him to THINK about how a person can discern whether the guy walking in with a gun is a good guy or a bad guy. Obviously, he has no answer.

          • smb11

            Actually, you didn’t ask him a question.

            Highlander actually asked you how you can tell whether it is a good guy with a gun or a bad guy with a gun.

            Re-read the last several posts

          • Highlander

            Thank you, smb11!

          • Joe Jones

            Yes I did. I want him to answer his own question after he THINKS about it.

            “How do I know if the gentleman in front of me carrying the AR-15 is a Good Guy With a Gun (TM) or a Bad Guy With a Gun (TM)?”

            The answer is obvious, but I am betting that it will escape Highlander.

          • smb11

            Basic English. A question ends with a question mark. (?)

            No answer yet? Is a question.

            Well, I use my brain. You….just do the best you can.

            The first part is a statement answering Highlander’s question. The second part is a directive statement. Neither one is a question.

          • Joe Jones

            The tread isn’t hard to follow.

          • smb11

            The question you claimed to have asked Highlander is hard to find. (This is a statement.)

            Where in those two posts is your question? (This is a question. It has a question mark.)

          • Joe Jones

            Jesus! Get a life! I told him I would let him think about it for a while. Then I noted that he had not yet replied with his summation. Follow the thread or go find another one.

          • smb11

            Jesus! Get an education!
            If you are going to blog you need to learn how to communicate. When you expect to receive a response to a question, you actually have to ask a question!
            You comment “I’m going to let you think about that for a while” is listed below this comment AND it is not a question.
            If Highlander was a mind reader (and that is the only way he would have known you were asking a question), he wouldn’t need to know how he was supposed to recognize a good guy with a gun vs a bad guy with a gun vs an idiot with a gun. He would be able to read their minds!

          • Joe Jones

            I am sorry that you cannot follow a conversation to your satisfaction.

          • smb11

            You fail in reading comprehension and basic communication skills. You have not demonstrated that you know the difference between a statement and a question. You obviously also refuse to critically review your writing.
            Highlander and I both asked you a question. You haven’t answered either one of our questions. You didn’t ask a question and yet you expect an answer.

          • Joe Jones

            Consider for a moment, the possibility that I have deemed both questions unworthy of an answer.

          • smb11

            Unfortunately, you don’t recognize it is an indicator of integrity.
            You expect Highlander to answer an unasked question and refuse to answer questions we have put to you.
            If you don’t have the integrity to act in an ethical, honest manner on a blog, how can your word be trusted if you were involved in a shooting?

          • Raji the Green Witch

            There’s a tire in the statement too? Tires have treads.

          • Joe Jones

            You’re bitching about a TYPO? Oh, I guess that means your whole position is correct, and Ive been wrong the whole time. Yeah. Right.

          • Raji the Green Witch

            Hey, turn around is fair play. And you STILL have yet to explain HOW one can or can NOT determine whether a person who is carrying a gun is a good guy or a bad guy just, waiting for a clear shot that will allow him/her to get away so that they could continue the shooting spree.

          • Joe Jones

            >”And you STILL have yet to explain HOW one can or can NOT determine whether a person who is carrying a gun is a good guy or a bad guy just, waiting for a clear shot that will allow him/her to get away so that they could continue the shooting spree.” – Raji, the Green Witch

            Yes, I have. You just suffer from poor reading comprehension.

          • Raji the Green Witch

            No you haven’t! All you have done is post a video of one speech (which never addresses the question at all) and have followed THAT up with insults about people’s “reading comprehension”. HOW do we TELL the good guys from the BAD guys with 100% accuracy, 100% of the time? Until you can come up with that then I am going to err on the side of my own personal safety and assume that the jerk with the gun in front of me plans on USING that gun, just as I would assume that a person who is holding a hammer is intending to USE that hammer to hit a nail or reasonable facsimile.

          • Joe Jones

            That is a good question.

          • Raji the Green Witch

            Well that “answer” is NOT so obvious, now IS it? HOW does one tell IF the person in front of one is a good guy or a bad guy? Do good guys have identifying tattoos, or what?

          • J. Fischer

            Yeah, we’re supposed to believe that all shooters have the same distinctive tells and will give themselves away if we engage them in conversation.

            More likely, they’ll whip up their guns and shoot you before you get a chance to assess the danger.

            Or do you hold people at gunpoint while talking to them? Or adopt a macho pose when blocking their way?

          • Joe Jones

            The point is that if they are there to shoot you, they will shoot you ANYWAY, with a gun which is carried illegally and concealed.

            So tell me why you are *especially* in danger of being shot by someone toting a gun with the intention to shoot innocent people, just because he may be carrying that gun openly.

            There is no LOGIC to your fear. You seem to believe that if a person, ANY person is not allowed to carry a firearm openly, your chances of being shot by some liberal with a pistol are diminished. That is just STUPID.

          • Raji the Green Witch

            You CAN’T tell, Joe. NO one can, unless they are psychic. Do you think that ALL bad guys have a “certain look”? Smell a certain way? say “certain things”? While it IS true that SOME do, not ALL people who DO those things turn out to be violent shooters, and not ALL shooters behave in the ways that you think. So, IF you think that there is a 100% foolproof way to discern good guys from bad guys then perhaps you should enlighten us ALL for sheer public safety concerns. Consider it to be your own act of Public Service.

          • Joe Jones

            That is the POINT, Raji. you CANNOT tell, so why are your panties in a wad over someone walking into a place with a gun carried OPENLY? With NO OTHER SIGN that THE PERSON CARRYING THE GUN is a threat, your “fears” are unfounded, and you fit the definition of a hoplophobe. You are afraid of an inanimate object. The gun makes you uneasy, simply because it is a gun.

            If a person is going to walk into an establishment, they will either walk in armed or unarmed.

            If they walk in ARMED and they have NO INTENTION of harming or killing anyone, then it makes absolutely no difference whether the gun is carried openly or concealed as they walk through the door..

            If they walk in ARMED and they have EVERY INTENTION to harm or kill people, then it makes absolutely no difference whether the gun is carried openly or concealed as they walk through the door.

            So Why are you investing so much energy into some silly proposal by this liberal professor of philosophy who suggests that you should stiff the restaurant for the bill simply because someone walked in with a gun?

          • Raji the Green Witch

            And it’s STILL an insult!

          • Raji the Green Witch

            “Why? What leads you to believe that a law-abiding citizen who is carrying a firearm for self-defense will have ANY motivation to shoot YOU?”
            You don’t KNOW if the guy with the gun IS a good guy or a bad guy until the shooting STARTS. By then it is already too late.

          • J. Fischer

            He thinks he has the power to determine if someone’s a mass shooter. It’s based on the idea that a mass shooter will stop and engage him in conversation rather than kill him.

          • Joe Jones

            and how does that nut job, carrying his pistol concealed, make you more safe than if he were carrying it openly?

          • Raji the Green Witch

            IOt doesn’t! However, IF I do NOT know a person IS carrying a gun then I am not very likely to feel intimidated by that gun. Nor am I likely to FEAR that gun simply because I do not KNOW of the existence of that gun. At least, until the person decides to confront someone in public WITH the gun, it simply does NOT concern me at all. CLOWNS frighten my child; yet a clown can easily approach my kid if that clown is NOT wearing the clown costume. Even though the person is STILL a clown, as long as the costume is not visible, my kid has no FEAR of the person. Understand the difference NOW?

          • J. Fischer

            What lawless hellhole of a nation do you live in that you need to have guns within reach at all times?

          • Joe Jones

            A nation where, to the best of MY knowledge, criminals do not announce their intentions. Since crime can happen anywhere, citizens should be allowed to defend their lives ANYWHERE.

        • Madbunny

          Technically we’re all targets for anybody that has a gun. I guess that would mean that’s how you see all liberals then? As targets?

          • Joe Jones

            Yes. They insist on walking about society UNARMED, so they are targets for any thug who picks them as their next victim of a violent crime.

          • Madbunny

            Amusing that you think that, even though you know at least one liberal who is ‘pretty damn liberal’ and is an advocate of CCW.
            .
            I think you need to do a reality check. Being liberal is not the same thing as being a pacifist. If you think it is, then realize that you’ve automatically put yourself into the same group as the ‘thugs’.
            When and where I choose to carry depends on my own assessments, certainly it isn’t some kind of fashion accessory in the way that ammosexuals have turned it into. If you want to assume that unarmed makes me a target more than being armed… that’s an assumption on your part.

          • Joe Jones

            Since you carry, I do not count you among the brain dead blithering idiot liberals.

    • Joe Jones

      If you ever carried a personal defense firearm, you would understand the benefits of open-carry.

      • Miriam Lupfer Reed

        There are NO benefits to open carry. You become the first target of any criminal who wants to conduct business, and the criminal will neutralize you first. The aggressor ALWAYS has the edge and no amount of training or watchfulness will allow an open carry person to respond to a criminal’s aggression with a weapon before it’s too late. And I have been a concealed carry person for over 40 years.

        • Joe Jones

          “There are NO benefits to open carry. You become the first target of any criminal who wants to conduct business, and the criminal will neutralize you first.” – Miriam Lupfer Reed

          Miriam, that is a liberal lie. Stop believing their nonsense. There are documented cases of criminals deciding NOT to rob a place because they observed armed customers in their target location. Criminals want to use a gun to scare their victims into compliance. They are not interested in getting into a gun fight.

          “The aggressor ALWAYS has the edge and no amount of training or watchfulness will allow an open carry person to respond to a criminal’s aggression with a weapon before it’s too late.” Miriam Lupfer Reed

          Again, you are mistaken. The bad guy does not automatically see your open carry weapon. If you are seated in a restaurant booth with your weapon to the inside of the booth, the criminal will not see your weapon on your hip. If you emerge from the bathroom while he is waving a gun around and shouting, “Open the register!” he does not have the advantage. There are many GOOD reasons to open carry. There are also good reasons to concealed carry. Equal regiments for and against each style exist.

          “And I have been a concealed carry person for over 40 years.” – Miriam Lupfer Reed

          Good for you! Ain’t it GREAT to be a citizen, rather than a subject?

          • rayb_baby

            “There are documented cases of criminals deciding NOT to rob a place because they observed armed customers in their target location.”

            Oh yeah???? I’d love to see that documentation. How do you know someone was going to commit a crime if they didn’t attempt to do it? I’m waiting!

          • Joe Jones

            Jump through your own hoops. Go to the NRA site and read THE ARMED CITIZEN. As a liberal you will only SEE something when you believe it.

          • Jerome Puttler

            The NRA is a terrorist organization!

          • Joe Jones

            Look up the word HOPLOPHOBE

          • Robert Kennedy

            Hoplophobe is a made up word with zero validity.

          • asphalt_cowboy

            Homophobe isn’t a medical condition either and that word gets thrown about with reckless abandon.

          • smb11

            It is not a medical diagnosis.

            Firearms authority and writer Jeff Cooper claims to have coined the word in 1962 to describe what he called a “mental aberration consisting of an unreasoning terror of gadgetry, specifically, weapons.”[5] The term was constructed from the Greek ὅπλον – hoplon, meaning, amongst other things, “arms,”[6] and φόβος – phobos, meaning “fear.”[7] Although not a mental health professional, Cooper employed the term as an alternative to other slang terms,

          • Robert Kennedy

            But, while fighting to make sure gun nuts can have weapons everywhere they are not wanted, they have the good sense to ban them in their headquarters, because they are aware that gun nuts ARE nuts, but they don’t want to give up the cut they get from every gun sale.

          • smb11

            NRA headquarters shouldn’t be allowed by ban weapons at the headquarters. If open carry is safe at Target, it is safe at their headquarters.
            The Supreme Court shouldn’t have a restricted zone since they have removed what little protection Women’s Reproductive Health Centers had.

          • Joe Jones

            That is what all pussies think about the NRA.

          • Highlander

            That’s a bit like me saying president obama has prevented an alien invasion by being president. Prove it wrong.

          • Joe Jones

            Liberals cannot understand the folly of demanding that one prove a negative.

          • Highlander

            Yes I can, that’s why I posted the above, because it’s impossible to prove it. You should talk to Susie. And while you’re at it study reading comprehension.

          • Joe Jones

            I wasn’t referring to you. I referred to raybaby. In other words, I was AGREEING with you.

          • Highlander

            One, you responded to my post, and two, he was saying pretty much the same thing.

          • Robert Kennedy

            Yes they can, that’s why you ignorant twits get slammed so often.

          • rayb_baby

            YOU’RE the one that said there is documented evidence!

          • Joe Jones

            There is. Jump through your own hoops. go find it yourself. Google is your friend.

          • rayb_baby

            You made the claim! You prove it! Google is your friend.

          • Joe Jones

            Sorry. you are unworthy of any effort on my part to educate you. Remain dumb and liberal. It is better that way.

          • rayb_baby

            Damn mosquito keeps buzzing around my ears! Well, at least I took my Chloroquine as a prophylaxis against malria.

          • Miriam Lupfer Reed

            I respectively disagree with your responses. I know of no “documented cases” of any criminal deciding not to commit a crime because of an open carry. Also, you are mistaken if you believe the aggressor does not have the advantage, always. It’s a proven matter of reaction time and response time. The examples you are citing are situations that are, essentially, concealed weapon situations, as the criminal is not aware of the weapon carried by the citizen. Again, you are entitled to your opinion about the “GOOD reasons” to open carry, but I disagree. Also, contrary to your assumption, I don’t believe “nonsense” nor have I subscribed to any “liberal lie.” I have formed my own opinions without any help from “liberal” or “conservative” influence, based on extensive research and personal experience. And yes, it’s always better to be a citizen with resources at hand.

          • Joe Jones

            Well, this site will not allow posting of links, so I cannot lead you to a page that makes my point.

          • smb11

            Posting links are allowed but the post is delayed while the link is reviewed. Oftentimes the post goes into limbo, never to return. Sometimes the post gets through.
            There are two ways around this:
            1) spell out the link site as much as possible, give a keyword search to facilitate finding the article. In one post, I use “space dot com” to point people to the article.
            2) Split your posts. Put the body of your comment in one post and state that the links will be in a second post. Put your links in a second post. At the very least, the work you did on the content of your post will get through.

          • Joe Jones

            Thank you, smb11 for your helpful post.

          • smb11

            I may passionately disagree with you, but I am just as passionate that we all get to make our point and provide access to our source material.

          • smb11

            When every “accidental shooting” or the “good guy with a gun” shoots a bystander is treated as criminal negligence at least or better as manslaughter, then the open carry supporters can start talking about how they are the responsible ones.
            Until the “good guy with a gun” knows he is going to have to pay for his mistakes with his house or his freedom, his mistakes are a threat to the rest of us.

          • Joe Jones

            Good guys with guns already know this. That is the reason unfounded fears of a lawful gun owner enacting the hero syndrome are just unfounded fears. Every gun owner KNOLWS that there is a liability associated with carrying a firearm. Well, except for the criminals.

          • smb11

            A good guy with a gun kills an innocent bystander. He is charged with a crime (criminal negligence or manslaughter). Is he going to stand in court and declare “Guilty” and accept his punishment or is he going to mount a defense that he acted in self-defense or he acted to protect others and that the dead innocent bystander is just collateral damage?
            Most police are highly trained and experienced. Even they make mistakes. Is the good guy with a gun even going to meet the imperfect standards of trained police officers?
            A good guy with a gun wounds or kills an innocent bystander. He is sued by the victim or the victim’s family. Is he going to stand in court and say “Take my house. Take my savings. I am responsible and I accept liability.” I really doubt that is going to happen.

          • Robert Kennedy

            Everybody, including serial killers are “good guys with guns” until they aren’t. Remember Cheney saying that if there’s a 1% chance a country has WMDs it’s right to say they are a threat. Well, that is triply true for gun nuts. Why are you so afraid of life, a tiny pee pee might make any woman dumb enough to see it laugh at you, but it presents no danger.

          • Joe Jones

            You are now counted among those to IGNORE. I only wish to discuss this issue with mature people.

          • rayb_baby

            Why are you wasting your time debating this useless idiot?

          • Robert Kennedy

            In fact, according to FBI statistics every “good guy with a gun” that has stepped up in the last 20 years became a victim himself and the bad guy with a gun shot him first.

          • Joe Jones

            That is complete bull crap, and you know it. Moron.

          • Robert Kennedy

            Ofurse YOU would think that, because it’s true.

      • Joe Jones

        For one thing, open carry invites curious onlookers to enter into a civil conversation about private firearms ownership, carrying a firearm for self-defense, available training and instruction via the NRA and other organizations, and the importance of exercising your rights. A right that is not exercised, is a right that is LOST.

        Even here in Kentucky, when I open carry in Sam’s Club or Lowe’s or Wal-Mart, people will sometimes ask me questions. Even though they live in Kentucky, many people STILL do not know that they have the right to carry a firearm for self-defense! They just believe the liberal lies about “only the militia” and all of that nonsense.

        A child in a cart noticed my firearm. His mother was rolling past me, and I heard her say something about it. I turned and smiled. The mom said, “My son was wondering if you were a policeman.” I said, “No. I am just a citizen, just like you, and I carry a firearm for self-defense just like YOU CAN.” The mother replied, “Really? *I* can legally carry a gun?” I said, “Yes! In Kentucky, with very few exceptions, you can lawfully OPEN-carry a loaded firearm for self-defense. If you wish to conceal-carry a gun, you must get a CDW (Concealed Deadly Weapons) permit and sit through a boring class that tells you all of the laws that govern carrying a concealed firearm. You must also take a brief test to show a proficiency in the handling of that firearm.”

        I open-carry to EDUCATE people who have been lied to for decades by hoplophobe liberals. I enjoy educating the public, and I certainly enjoy the freedoms that only a CITIZEN (rather than a ‘subject’) can enjoy!

        • rayb_baby

          “If you wish to conceal-carry a gun, you must get a CDW (Concealed Deadly Weapons) permit and sit through a boring class that tells you all of the laws that govern carrying a concealed firearm. You must also take a brief test to show a proficiency in the handling of that firearm.”

          Well that’s reassuring! So any untrained idiot can open carry and we’re supposed to feel that they’re going to protect us. You obviously buy into the same 2nd amendment lies that even the NRA didn’t try to sell before the last 30yrs or so.

          • Joe Jones

            No. I just believe that a free citizen should not be required to get a permit or a license to exercise a Right.

            “So any untrained idiot can open carry and we’re supposed to feel that they’re going to protect us.”

            There is no presumption that a citizen who is open carrying a firearm is required, or even morally obligated to protect YOU from injury or death as a result of an attack on you by a criminal. What leads you to believe that ANY citizen carries to protect OTHERS? The decision to carry is to protect the carrier, as well as his family members, etc. You, as a stranger, are responsible for your own safety.

          • Jerome Puttler

            Your tiny dick is showing!

          • Joe Jones

            You seem preoccupied with penises, Jerome. If I were you, I’d worry about that.

          • smb11

            Where in the Second Amendment does it say that a person has the right to carry a weapon any where he or she wants, that they can have any weapon they want and whenever they want?
            If this was the intent, why wasn’t it written this way. How are the provisions in Article I, Section 8, related to the Second Amendment?

          • Joe Jones

            The founders just fought and won a war against the British. They wrote the 2nd Amendment so that ALL citizens would be armed, so that if the need to call up a “MILITIA” arose, the citizens could report to a location ARMED and ready to fight, so that the government would not be responsible for arming them.

            “The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”

            How much more plainly can this be worded? It WAS written that way. The problem is, the gun grabbing liberals have thrust a different interpretation of those words onto the American people.

            Wealthy Americans could own rifles, shotguns and pistols, as well as cannons, and any other “arms” they could afford to purchase. The free ownership of “arms” was not infringed upon, until liberalism took root in America.

            As for the silly liberal argument that always comes up, “Yeah? Well … I want a nuclear bomb!” That is just liberal stupidity. The supporting founding documents clearly address the issue by clarifying that the average citizen should have access to, and be allowed to own and properly MAINTAIN (Well Regulated) their firearms, and they should be able to carry (bear) the same weapons carried by the ordinary foot soldier. That includes handguns, shotguns, rifles, and yes, even M-16 machine guns and such. The 2nd Amendment was never intended, and was not written to give the average citizen the green light to own tanks, fighter jest and nuclear missiles, HOWEVER, it was also expressly written so that these options were NOT excluded to the law abiding citizen who could afford them.

          • smb11

            Article I, Section 8,

            15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

            16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress

            There is provision in the Constitution for the Federal Government to arm the militias.

            Second Amendment

            A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

            The purpose for having a right to bear arms is to have a well-regulated Militia for defense. As we see from Article 1, Section 8, the militia is to be used to the Laws of the Union, suppress insurrection and repel invasion. It is not to defend against a “tyrannical government”.
            Since the purpose for having the right to keep and bear arms is to have a well-regulated militia, there should be a national database of military style gun ownership so the government knows who to call up for militia duty. Since everyone with a gun is eligible for militia duty, they should be called up on a regular basis (every four years) to be drilled on gun safety, gun laws and gun maintenance. They should be required to bring their weapons to be inspected for maintenance issues.
            It seems to me that this would be constitutional and is a closer fit to what the Founding Fathers had in mind than the “I can have any gun I want and take it anywhere I want, whenever I want philosophy of the gun rights crowd.

          • rayb_baby

            Well done! You were finally able to shut up the NRA troll that couldn’t respond.

          • Robert Kennedy

            And in 1939 SCOTUS ruled that the 2nd amendment ONLY includes the National Guard.

          • Highlander

            “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”

            Yet if I wanted to practice ritual human sacrifice, I wouldn’t be allowed to do so. This part also hasn’t stopped conservatives from trying to establish Christianity as a state religion.

            “or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

            Yet I don’t have the right to slander someone, or yell “FIRE!” in a crowded theater. My point is that rights can and do have limits.

          • Highlander

            It says the right to bear ARMS, not FIREARMS.

          • Joe Jones

            That is a really WEAK argument. ARMS are weapons. GUNS are weapons. YOU are a MORON.

          • Highlander

            My point, sir, (and way to call names there) is that it doesn’t say just firearms. And as far as your idea about being carried and properly maintained, a shoulder mounted missile launcher would fit that bill.

          • Joe Jones

            Only when you ignore the Federalist Papers and other supporting documents that CLEARLY define “arms” as that which is carried by the ordinary foot soldier. Soldiers DO USE shoulder mounted missiles, but that is not part of their regular issue equipment.

          • smb11

            You have not yet written on taking Article I, Section 8 and the Second Amendment together.

            Also, the Second Amendment is”

            A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

          • Joe Jones

            >”Where in the Second Amendment does it say that a person has the right to carry a weapon any where he or she wants, that they can have any weapon they want and whenever they want?”

            Where does it say that the 2nd Amendment forbids it?

          • Robert Kennedy

            But you don’t have a “right.” The 2nd amendment doesn’t even refer to the police, only the active duty National Guard.

          • Joe Jones

            Robert, the 2nd Amendment does NOT refer to the national guard. That is an assumption on your part.

            Also, the 2nd amendment does not GRANT me the right to keep and bear arms. It only ACKNOWLEDGES that the God-given right exists. Understand that, I have the right to keep and bear arms EVEN IF the 2nd amendment did not exist, because the right is NOT granted by some government. it is an “inalienable” right granted to me by God.

            I know that the liberals believe that the right is granted by the constitution, but they are wrong, and perhaps DEAD wrong.

            The militia necessary to the security of a free state is NOT the National Guard.

            Go to LECTLAW (dot) com and look up the page

            “The Second Amendment: The Framers’ Intentions”

            It will straighten out your warped understanding of the 2nd Amendment

          • smb11

            Where in the Bible does it say that God gave you the right to bear arms? Are you claiming that a weapon is a religious artifact?
            Where in the Bible does it say that God has anything to do with government, and specifically, the USA? Jesus said to “leave unto Caesar what is Caesars”.

          • Joe Jones

            Your RIGHT to defend your life does not come from a government. It comes from the fact that you were created by God, and you have the inalienable right to defend that life against any attempt to end it.

          • Joe Jones

            >”So any untrained idiot can open carry and we’re supposed to feel that they’re going to protect us.”

            Yep. Just like any untrained idiot can vote for Obama.

          • smb11

            Joe has just posted that he thinks the FBI pistol qualification test is a joke. He also claims guns were invented to fire a projectile. That’s it. His reasoning ends there. In his mind, guns weren’t invented to mail or kill, just fire a projectile.
            As an example of his think process, how reassuring is that

      • Jerome Puttler

        Joey!!! Little dick and little mind!

        • Joe Jones

          It is AMAZING what a person will say to another person over the Internet, what he would NEVER say to that person face-to-face. Did it make you “feel good” to post that Jerome? I suppose, having nothing of substance to add to the conversation, your only option was to default to childish insults. I understand. I do not expect much from you.

          • Jerome Puttler

            You have nothing of substance to add at any time! I would love to see your gun go off and hit your little DICK

          • Joe Jones

            Are you a homosexual? I only ask, because 99% of your posts make references to penises.

          • Robert Kennedy

            And 100% of gun nuts are suffering from penis envy, and while I have a gun, I’m not a gun nut. And I’m not homosexual, I’m straight, but not narrow.

          • smb11

            I don’t like the childish insults from either side. I have had to develop a filter in my mind for those kinds of posts.
            I do admit, sometimes I slip and sound a little snarky, especially those people who present their opinion as fact and also those who make statements of fact without providing backup documentation..

    • Robert Kennedy

      Because it makes them seem like they aren’t the cowards the guns prove that they are.

    • Joe Jones

      It is as simple as this. The presence of a firearm is no more oaf a threat to you that the presence of a car parked next to you. The gun is no danger unless it is held by someone who intends to shoot you, and the car is no danger to you unless it is driven by a person who intends to run you down. Dressing to conceal a firearm is bothersome and unnecessary. It isn’t a matter of “having to show off the gun.” It is a matter of, jeans and a T-shirt makes it very difficult to successfully conceal a firearm.

  • Mistress Time

    If a place of business is not concerned with your safety, I do not think that you should be concerned with their bottom line. I would walk out, not pay for my dinner and call 911 about a possible terrorist in the place.

    • Ashton

      To call 911 for any purpose other than to report an emergency could
      result in criminal penalties. Each state has different penalties for 911
      misuse, but in most cases, abuse can lead to possible jail time and stiff fines. So please don’t waste every ones time including the tax payers money to prove your an idiot.

      • Mistress Time

        As far as I am concerned anyone walking into a restaurant carrying any kind of weapon is looking for trouble. I will let the police sort it out.

        • Joe Jones

          So, a martial arts expert walking into a restaurant is looking for trouble? I carry a cell phone in case I need to make a call. I carry a comb in case my hair is blown by the wind. I carry car keys so I can re-enter my vehicle after I eat. I carry a credit card in case I wish to purchase something with a price higher than my available cash on hand. I carry an umbrella in case it is raining when I finish my meal. I carry a firearm in case I am eating a peaceful meal in a restaurant and some low-life storms in looking to shoot helpless victims. I am not looking for trouble.

          • Madbunny

            Can you tell the difference between a martial artist and a guy walking around with a ninja sword?
            I guess you can’t.

          • Joe Jones

            Nope. That is why I carry a gun.

          • Highlander

            Way to miss the point, there.

          • Robert Kennedy

            If a martial arts expert attacks someone they can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. And a real martial arts expert who is into the true life would never attack an innocent person.

          • Mistress Time

            You are semi amusing, but not particularly pertinent. If I saw you carrying a gun with a loaded comb and a dangerous looking cell phone I would call 911.

      • Joe Jones

        The liberals who make the “MWG” 9-1-1 calls do it anonymously. They won’t be responsible for anything.

        • smb11

          1) If I make a 911 call, I would leave my name.
          2) A 911 dispatcher has caller ID so they would have the phone number of the person who called. They can easily find out who made the call. The only way to make an anonymous call would be to use a phone booth (which are hard to find now) or use a burner phone.

          • Joe Jones

            Why don’t you visit your local 811 call center and ask them to explain to you what percentage of calls they receive ANONYMOUSLY. You are assuming that a person would use a phone that is connected to them in every instance. This is not reality.

          • smb11

            I am assuming the majority of calls come from a person using their own cell phone or their own land line. Public phones are few and far between. Someone calling in a report about an armed person most likely wouldn’t go looking for a way to make an anonymous call. It would take too much time. They might as well just leave and keep going.

          • Robert Kennedy

            Calling anonymously and the call center not knowing who you are, are entirely different things.

        • Highlander

          Because the open carry morons have already posted the information of the people how do leave it so that they can harass them.

      • smb11

        Are you prepared to lose your house and possibly your freedom for the collateral damage (read the wounding or killing of your fellow citizens) you caused in a shoot out with a bad guy?

        • Joe Jones

          Yes. Without a doubt. My home and possessions are worthless to me if I am lying dead on the pavement because I was unarmed and shot and killed by a thug with a gun.

          • smb11

            The reality is that the bad guy at the ATM already has his weapon drawn and trained on you when he threatens you. As you heroically pull out your gun, he either shoots you or stabs you before you get your weapon drawn. You are dead or grievously wounded in either case.
            Remember the right wing militia couple who shot the two Vegas police officers and then went to a nearby store? A good guy with a gun was killed while drawing his weapon.

          • Joe Jones

            There are always exceptions.

          • Joe Jones

            You do not know a lot about criminal psychology. Most criminals use a gun as a tool of intimidation. They do not want to shoot you or be shot. They just want your wallet, purse, money, etc.

            When a victim pulls a gun, the criminal will most likely run away. This is important to understand. The criminal KNOWS that when the cops get there, HE will be taken to jail.

            Statistics and personal accounts of armed robberies do not support your scenario of the criminal arriving with the gun drawn, and shooting the victim. In most cases, when the criminal is confronted with a firearm, he runs.

            The defensive use of a firearm is most often NOT reported, so the stats you are using to make your assumptions are severely flawed.

          • smb11

            Do you have a study to support your scenario? I would be interested in reading them.

          • Joe Jones

            TheArmedCitizen dot com

          • smb11

            I checked out the website. They have the best section on long-term food storage I have seen. However, I checked the stories section and the resource section and couldn’t find any study.
            Do you know of a study from a public health organization, university or peer reviewed journals?

          • Joe Jones

            Go to GUNCITE dot COM and find

            The Value of Civilian Handgun Possession
            as a Deterrent to Crime or a Defense
            Against Crime

          • Joe Jones

            Go to GUNOWNERS dot ORG

            and find

            Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives

          • Joe Jones

            How about the CATO Institute

            find

            Tough Targets: When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens

          • Joe Jones

            and this

            RENSE dot COM

            University Study Confirms
            Private Firearms
            Stop Crime 2.5 Million Times Each Year

          • Robert Kennedy

            God, you ARE stupid.

          • smb11

            You have not provided any statistics from a non-biased source such as the FBI, university studies, etc. You make a lot of statements of fact without any supporting documentation.
            Now here is some anecdotal evidence, so it should not be used as PROOF of any point, but it does call into question your belief that criminals run rather than “get into a shootout”.
            I had a neighbor in the FBI. He was involved in a “shootout” with a bank robber. My neighbor was shot, but survived. If he believed as you do (that criminals run away rather than get into a shootout), he most likely would be dead.

          • Joe Jones

            Again, there are always exceptions.

      • Robert Kennedy

        And thinking a a-hole with a brandished weapon is an emergency is justifiable.

    • Joe Jones

      A business that forbids a law-abiding citizen to carry a firearm for SELF-defense is NOT concerned for your safety. The rest of your comment deserves to be ignored.

  • Bascoda

    Damn right I’m a liberal, and proud of it!
    You, on the other hand, think that your right to compensate for other inadequacies by flaunting a deadly weapon in public is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. You want me to assume that you are a “good guy with a gun,” Rationally, that could be a fatal assumption on my part. You strut into a place I am eating or shopping displaying a weapon, what I see is a guy with a gun – I’m not psychic, I can’t tell good from bad just by looking. All I see is a potential deadly danger to me – and my two options are taking you out before you can harm me or mine, or leaving as fast as I can to avoid a possibly life threatening situation. In either case, the business that allowed you to enter while armed bears the responsibility for the reaction to your behavior. If it costs them money, so be it. I might come back later to make sure that the employee serving me wasn’t financially hurt by my leaving, but at the same time I would make very sure that management knew why I left and that I would never be a customer again as long as they allowed armed civilians on their premises.

    • Joe Jones

      A CAR is a deadly weapon. Do you cower in fear as people all around “flaunt” their cars as they drive by you, looking for a parking space?

    • Joe Jones

      “You, on the other hand, think that your right to compensate for other inadequacies by flaunting a deadly weapon in public is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.” – Bascoda

      The only thing I “compensate” for by carrying a firearm is my inability to fight like Bruce Lee and my inability to run like Bruce Jenner.

      “You want me to assume that you are a “good guy with a gun,” Rationally, that could be a fatal assumption on my part. You strut into a place I am eating or shopping displaying a weapon, what I see is a guy with a gun – I’m not psychic, I can’t tell good from bad just by looking.” – Bascoda

      Yes you can. You ust don’t WANT to tell the difference.

      “All I see is a potential deadly danger to me – and my two options are taking you out before you can harm me or mine, or leaving as fast as I can to avoid a possibly life threatening situation.” – Bascoda

      Whenever you are out in a public place, you ARE in a life-threatening situation. Or do you believe that because you do not SEE firearms on the people around you, they must not be armed?

      “In either case, the business that allowed you to enter while armed bears the responsibility for the reaction to your behavior. If it costs them money, so be it. I might come back later to make sure that the employee serving me wasn’t financially hurt by my leaving, but at the same time I would make very sure that management knew why I left and that I would never be a customer again as long as they allowed armed civilians on their premises.” – Bascoda

      It is best that people like you DO leave. in that way, if a CRIMINAL came into the establishment while I was dining there, I would not have to weigh the option of protecting your unarmed a*s. I could focus on defending MY life, and that is much better.

      • smb11

        And when you shoot an innocent bystander (collateral damage), you lose your house and your savings, putting your family out on the street.

        • Joe Jones

          What makes you believe that in EVERY situation where a personal defense firearm is used to defend a law abiding citizen, an innocent bystander is shot or killed? You’ve been listening to the liberals too much. Try checking in with REALITY for a while, You might like it!

  • Steve Cain

    You better believe my feelings trump their business. Like the Southwest airlines gate attendant, I feel threatened. I am walking out, carefully but quickly and I’m calling 911! Prove to the cops you’re not a mass murderer! Either way, that business has lost my business and I will make sure everyone else knows why I am not coming back.

  • madame48

    I don’t want my kids threatened with a Teenieweeniepeenie Parade…we leave

    • Joe Jones

      The “Teenieweeniepeenie Parade” is that big group of forcibly disarmed liberals over there, who are sitting sucks for the criminal with a gun and the desire to kill people.

  • Mike Ebbert

    it’s one thing to leave the abandon a cart full of stuff in a store and walk out then call the store on the phone to tell them why you did not complete your purchase=they can put the stuff back on the shelves..but walking out of a diner mid-meal that is a case by case thing. in both cases part of my responce would be to call 911

    • Michael W. Herberth

      IF someone walks out because of an overwhelming fear of a situation that the business would not address there is little recourse for that business. There is no intent to defraud, the fear for personal safety is the overwhelming motivator. It is also very easy to pay later if you have a moral issue with walking out. Reasonable fear for safety carries a lot of weight legally, both in Police reaction and in the courts, especially if multiple parties claim that same fear.
      Walking away is the safe version of Stand Your Ground. Express your fear, walk away to a safe place and make sure that the event is made as public as possible and that as many government agencies as possible are involved, even if it’s just through a phone call. Finally, let the responsible parties deal with the aftermath – the business and the OC folks. Let’s see just how long those business people can remain open when it’s only the OCophiles patronizing their establishments. No matter WHAT they say, no matter WHERE they are, they are a statistically insignificant minority with very LOUD mouths, huge gaps in their education, big gunz and not much else to offer.

    • Joe Jones

      Sadly, liberals will call 9-1-1 because they are not accountable for their actions. In a state where it is LEGAL to open carry a firearm, calling 9-1-1 to “report a man with a gun” is irresponsible and immature. The caller (who will undoubtedly be ANONYMOUS) is hoping that adrenaline-charged cops will shoot and kill the private citizen who is dimly exercising his 2nd Amendment Right. That makes the caller a MURDERER.

  • sleepswithcats

    You’re right, Hooper. When I see an armed stranger enter the restaurant in which I am enjoying a meal, and I very reasonably fear for my safety, if not my life, I should not leave without paying for my meal. I should pull my weapon and shoot the armed intruder in the head. Twice. Then I should finish my meal, pay, and leave.

    • Weirdo

      I fully support this [and I think Stand Your Ground states do too!]

    • Joe Jones

      So … YOU would be there WITH YOUR GUN, seated and eating your meal as an armed citizen, and being no threat to anyone. But if another customer enters with a gun, you feel you are justified in pulling your firearm and shooting him through the head?

      Please define the scenario that constitutes, “A very reasonable fear for [your] safety.”

      • sleepswithcats

        When you display a weapon, you are an immediate threat to be dealt with as harshly as necessary.

        • Joe Jones

          So, sticking with this point … YOU are IN the restaurant, eating your meal, and YOU have a gun on you. Now I walk in wearing a pistol in a hip holster, and IN YOUR MIND this authorizes YOU to shoot me through the head, simply because I ALSO came into the restaurant to eat a meal while wearing a gun, where YOU are seated, eating a meal while wearing a gun? Is that what you are saying?

          • Joe Jones

            Crickets

          • smb11

            In Florida, that would be called Standing Your Ground where texting during movie previews is a threat worthy of a fatal shooting.

          • Joe Jones

            Now you are just being ridiculous.

        • Joe Jones

          Please define “Display a Weapon.” Are you saying that when I am carrying a pistol in a holster, you perceive me as an immediate threat to be dealt with as harshly as possible?

          • sleepswithcats

            It all depends on whether I like you or not. If I think you’re a right-wing nutjob, I’m fully entitled to waste you on the spot, since you are a grave threat, not only to me, but to the entire world. It’s all about weeding out the undesirables, you know.

          • Joe Jones

            With nut jobs like you around, I have no choice but to carry a gun.

          • sleepswithcats

            See? You agree with me. There really is no solution except the extermination of the human race, which has proven itself incapable of civilized behavior.

          • Joe Jones

            Well, the liberals have certainly proven that THEY cannot act civilized.

  • Thorsten Stier

    Yeah, sure….if someone comes in with a gun,and I don´t know that person or what his intentions are…. I finish my meal, pay and wait for him to shoot me or not….very logical……..you would not do this either, otherwise you would be a dumb looser to darwins law….. all you can do is posting the biggest BS just for the Sake of your friggin “antiliberal” Agenda .

    • Joe Jones

      >”Yeah, sure….if someone comes in with a gun,and I don´t know that person or what his intentions are…. I finish my meal, pay and wait for him to shoot me or not….very logical……..you would not do this either, otherwise you would be a dumb looser to darwins law…..”

      Go with that thought. Is the man who walked in with a gun carrying the gun in a holster and waiting to be seated for a meal, talking on the cellular phone and browsing the menu, or is the gun in his hand with his finger on the trigger, and he is pushing people around and shouting, “Open the register!” ?? Apparently, many brain dead blithering idiot liberals cannot see any difference in the two behaviors, and they view them as equally threatening.

      >”all you can do is posting the biggest BS just for the Sake of your friggin “antiliberal” Agenda .”

      Aw, heck! I can do lots of other things!

      • Thorsten Stier

        Biggest BS, who is talking about someone having his gun properly in a holster maybe under his jacket..!?

        Try this thought:

        Don´t you think that if everybody would be running around with
        weapons , so that everybody can see them – in the end nobody could even
        differ the “eventually in that moment “good guy” from a lunatic coming
        into that same place!?

        And if it´s completely usual to run
        around with several firearms a “bad guy” don´t even need to hide them
        anymore, his best disguise then would be running around , armed up to
        the teeth and nobody would realize what that guy is up to until he
        starts shooting?
        And if he starts shooting inside f.e. a diner full
        of armed people, how will you divide the good from the bad guy in the
        chaos and what do you think would be the outcome of such a mess!? A
        bloodbath……

        • Joe Jones

          >”Biggest BS, who is talking about someone having his gun properly in a holster maybe under his jacket..!?”

          I am. That is the whole point of this discussion. Your leafed professor of philosophy in the video is not talking about thugs rushing into a business with guns DRAWN. He is talking about a person walking into a public place with a firearm on his body. In a HOLSTER. Carried LEGALLY

          >”Don´t you think that if everybody would be running around with weapons , so that everybody can see them – in the end nobody could even differ the “eventually in that moment “good guy” from a lunatic coming into that same place!?”

          No.

          >”And if it´s completely usual to run around with several firearms a “bad guy” don´t even need to hide them
          anymore, his best disguise then would be running around , armed up to the teeth and nobody would realize what that guy is up to until he starts shooting?”

          That happens now. Nothing would change.

          >”And if he starts shooting inside f.e. a diner full
          of armed people, how will you divide the good from the bad guy in the chaos and what do you think would be the outcome of such a mess!? A bloodbath……”

          Thorsten, nearly ALL of the country now issued concealed carry permits. With the exception of a few bastions of liberalism, nearly the entire country allows its citizens to be armed IN PUBLIC. Your “Wild West Shootout” scenario has N_E_V_E_R occurred.

  • J. Fischer

    You get online and talk about how great these people are, and how you wouldn’t be worried if gun-toting people walked into any store or building you were in — but in reality, you’d be just as nervous as the rest of us.

    Besides, how is it stealing if I leave my cart in the middle of the aisle and leave? If I haven’t had a chance to get my food, I’ll tell the clerk to cancel my order.

    • Mike Ebbert

      great post. J.Fischer

    • Joe Jones

      >”You get online and talk about how great these people are, and how you wouldn’t be worried if gun-toting people walked into any store or building you were in — but in reality, you’d be just as nervous as the rest of us.”

      I love how liberals profess to know how another person will react to a situation. If YOU pee your pants, that is your problem. I would ignore him and continue my shopping.

      • J. Fischer

        The people with the biggest mouths about how tough they are, and how they’d do this or that, usually haven’t been put in the situations they think they’d handle.

        You say that you would ignore an armed man — whose intentions you don’t know — and just carry on shopping? If you’re capable of doing that, then I hope it NEVER turns out that you ignored a nutcase on a mission.

        • Joe Jones

          At the point where I would decide to ignore him, I will have already assessed his threat level. I would not turn my back on some nut job.

          • J. Fischer

            James Randi has a million dollars for anyone who displays psychic abilities to his satisfaction. Maybe you should try for it.

            Or do you think people intent on murder are always twitchy and nervous? Or that they will engage in conversation? ‘Hey, watcha doing with that gun?’ ‘Exercising my rights.’ ‘Oh, okay.’ And then the guy goes and exercises his imaginary right to shoot the woman who dumped him a decade ago. Unless he just decides to shoot you for getting in his way.

      • smb11

        I am sure Curtis Reeves (the Florida theater shooter) didn’t look threatening, that is until he shot Chad Oulsen in the chest.

        • Joe Jones

          and I am sure that he was giving off signals that people were too dumb or too self-absorbed staring at their iPhones to notice. I do not suffer from that affliction.

  • BBK713

    Absolutely, it’s stealing. The Moron Militia is stealing our peace of mind and our happiness and out freedom to avoid gunfire we didn’t start. Hey, troll, go stand in the sunlight and turn to stone. Moron…

  • Angrydave

    But your warped interpretation of the second amendment and your infantile childish play for attention trumps my right to eat a peaceful meal without looking at a moron with a gun? It’s like a baby crying for attention or an insecure teenager dying her hair pink. .. look at me and my gun.. pathetic. . Stay home and make out with your AK. .

    • Joe Jones

      “But your warped interpretation of the second amendment” – Angrydave

      Sadly, it is your warped interpretation of the 2A that is the problem. All of the founding documents CLEARLY indicate that the intent of the 2A was to allow law abiding citizens to be armed. You are ignoring glaring chunks of history to embrace the twisted liberal view of the 2A referring only to a “militia.” Study history, and stop drinking the liberal Kool Aid.

      “and your infantile childish play for attention trumps my right to eat a peaceful meal without looking at a moron with a gun?” – Angrydave

      I have a similar reaction, when I look at some unarmed moron sitting there, believing that ‘It Can’t Happen Here’ and he is perfectly safe.

      “It’s like a baby crying for attention or an insecure teenager dying her hair pink. .. look at me and my gun.. pathetic. . Stay home and make out with your AK. .” – Angrydave

      I carry several items, my keyring, my cell phone, my comb, my pen, my firearm, my wallet, my glasses … each of these things serves a purpose, and I do not care if you notice them at all.

      • smb11

        It is you who seems to have failed to do your research. Read “The Second Amendment, A Biography” by Michael Waldman. It also has extensive endnotes for further research.

        • Joe Jones

          I am well aware of the history of the 2A. I don’t need to read some liberal rag. Thanks anyway.

          • smb11

            Real history involves research and documentation. This book meets the standard. There is a difference between history and myth.

            You seem to have an anti-education bias.

          • Joe Jones

            It all boils down to simple facts. Americans HAVE the individual right to keep and bear arms, and the miserable FAILURES of the liberals to force another perspective onto Americans is proof enough of that. The map link I gave you shows the progress of private gun ownership and CCW issuance from 1986 to present, and it shows that you are wrong on this. A few bastions of liberalosn are holding out, kicking and screaming, and refusing to admit the truth, but eventually they WILL be required to conform to the law. A constitutional Right is a Right that cannot be diminished by some arbitrary city limit or some weak local ordinance. Right now, a few, VERY FEW places in America are still fighting this, but eventually they WILL have to concede that the 2nd Amendment says exactly what it says, “THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”

            I am not interested in an exercise in academic futility. I AM educated on the 2nd Amendment, and things like the most recent decision By the SCotUS that ENDS Washington D.C.’s stupid handgun ban is more proof that I am on the right side of this. Oh sure, the politicians got an “emergency” 90-day stay on the decision, but like everywhere else, they will FAIL to show why a person in D.C. is exceptionally required to be disarmed, while all across the country this is no longer the case.

            I have tolerated Highlander and others tossing out their “gun nut” accusations and the attacks on me as a law-abiding citizen simply because I CHOOSE to carry a firearm for self-defense now and then. I am not an “irresponsible gun owner” simply by virtue of owning and carrying a gun, and the accusation instantly makes the accuser a complete MORON in my eyes. That would be like saying that a person is an irresponsible driver, simply because they choose to drive a car. There is 100% EMOTION, and ZERO intelligence behind such accusations.

            Conclusion: YOU LOSE. The law-abiding American citizen will soon be able to Constitutional carry, which means that permits and licenses will no longer be required, as they are not required to exercise any other RIGHT in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

            It is my choice. It is not a Bill of NEEDS. It is a Bill of Rights. NO ONE has the authority to determine what I may or may not “need.”

            If you are unhappy that I carry, or that citizens carry, or that CRIMINALS carry, then I suggest you pack up your things and leave this free country. Move to some bastion of Socialism or Communism where you are assured that the average citizen is not armed. There are plenty of countries around the world where you can be a “safe” SUBJECT. Here, I choose to be a FEWW CITIZEN, and there is nothing you, or any other whining liberal can do about it.

          • smb11

            Why are you afraid to read real history?

      • Angrydave

        Sorry you have to carry a weapon to feel secure..i guess your mom took you off the teet too soon..or maybe it’s your way of shouting “look at me..notice me”..or, maybe your just a stupid f**k with a short d**k…

        • Joe Jones

          Again, you completely miss the point. I don’t “have to” carry a weapon to feel secure. I CHOOSE to carry a weapon to GUARANTEE that I am secure.

          Your statement shows abundant ignorance and arrogance. You seem to believe that there is NO CRIMINAL you may encounter who is bigger, stronger, meaner, faster and better trained in physical altercations than YOU are, that you can kick anyone’s ass without needing a firearm EVEN WHEN your attacker is carrying a firearm, and you present this false presumption as your reason why NO CITIZEN should carry a firearm for self-defense.

          Do you “have to” carry an umbrella when you walk outside under dark clouds? No. You CHOOSE to carry one so that you will be prepared to deal with a sudden downpour. Your decision to carry an umbrella does not increase or decrease the chances that you will be rained upon, or that it will even rain at all where you are standing. However, if it DOES rain suddenly and without warning (in the same way crimes are committed,) you are prepared to deal with it.

          You liberals always make everything personal. Your reply indicates that you believe that YOU are some bad ass steroid case who can kick anyone’s ass and therefore you do not need to carry a gun. Isn’t it nice that YOU are confident that you can overpower any attacker. You are short-sighted though, because you are applying your self-centered view to ALL citizens.

          Do you believe that the 78 lb. 69 year old woman who walks with a limp can also kick anyone’s ass, thus she does not need to carry a firearm for self-defense? I’ll bet you do!

          When I argue the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, I am not arguing for the retention of that Right for ME. I am arguing for the retention of that right for ALL law abiding citizens. I am 6’1″ and 280 lb. I can kick serious ass when I need to, and I do not “need” a gun to do it.

          The difference between you and me is that YOU believe that ALL citizens have equivalent hand-to-hand self-defense capabilities, and therefore there is no need for John Q. Citizen to carry a firearm for self defense, while I believe that the right should exist simply because unlike brain dead blithering idiot liberals, *I* do not presume to speak for EVERYONE.

        • Joe Jones

          You certainly are.

  • Madbunny

    Open carry is for idiots.

    • Joe Jones

      Walking around in a society where armed criminals ignore gun laws is the consummate definition of an “IDIOT.”

      • Madbunny

        Am I supposed to stay in my home then, cowering in the corner?

        Look champ if you want to walk around with $3,500 clipped onto a tactical vest that makes you kind of an idiot. I can accomplish the same degree of ‘tactical safety’ with a $30-50 ccw holster with the added benefit of not looking like I’m afraid the world will think I have a tiny penis or making myself a target.

        • Joe Jones

          Oh! The tiny penis card is played again! So I guess that if your concealed carry gun is larger than my open carry gun, that means YOU have a tiny penis, right?

          • Madbunny

            You seem overly interested in the size of my penis. Sorry sport, I don’t roll that way, but I’m sure you’ll find a man who loves you for who you are.
            Notice how you avoided the substance of my reply? It must mean that you agree with it.

          • Joe Jones

            No, I mostly ignored what you posted. It seemed unworthy of an intelligent response. The gun grabbers are the ones who are making the constant comparisons about a person carrying a firearm compensating for a small penis. By the way, nice alias, mad BUNNY!

          • Jerome Puttler

            Tiny mind as well!

          • smb11

            Perhaps instead of focusing on the “penis” analogy, maybe we should just be calling them what they are — bullies!

          • Joe Jones

            Do you believe you are being “bullied” by the person who walks his three Rotweillers down the street on leashes?

          • smb11

            I love dogs. Dogs are honest. Dogs broadcast their intent, if you know dog language.
            I’ve known lovely Rotties and one Rottie that was fine but just didn’t want to be friends.
            My dogs are my protection and they can never be used against me.

          • Joe Jones

            and criminals broadcast their intent if you know criminal body language.

          • smb11

            I imagine some do and some don’t. For example, sociopath’s have a flat affect.

          • Robert Kennedy

            I have heard stories of bad rotties, but every single one I’ve ever come into contact with has been a real lovable dog. It depends on the owner to properly raise them. Just as most guns are not a problem, but the poorly raised scumbags who need them to “prove” they aren’t cowards are.

          • Robert Kennedy

            No, but I bet you do.

      • Jerome Puttler

        I have walked around unarmed for 53 years! You are a lying POS

        • Joe Jones

          Do you have anything intelligent to offer?

        • Joe Jones

          It is the fool who, after completing 100 miles of steady walking up to a certain point in his life, draws the conclusion that he will NEVER trip and fall during his remaining time on Earth.

          • smb11

            So, should we not fly on airplanes because there is a statistically slight possibility the plane will crash?
            That is the equivalent of saying we should carry a weapon because their is a slight statistical probability we will be the victim of a person-to-person crime.

          • Joe Jones

            Everything in life contains an element of risk. You decide for yourself, how much risk you are willing to take. When you board a plane, there is the risk that this will be the end of your life. You make the conscious decision to board that flight, certain that the odds are in your favor, and generally speaking, they are.

            When you walk down a public street or enter any public place, there is the risk that you may be confronted by an armed criminal. Your decision to be there unarmed is your choice, and the odds are in your favor that you will not be selected as a victim of a crime. However, it is foolish to point to the high percentage of successful outings you have experienced in the PAST as the reason to completely abandon the notion that a confrontation with an armed criminal does not exist in your future.

          • Robert Kennedy

            I look forward to the day when a whole bunch of open carry idiots are gunned down by someone using his “stand your ground” laws to say he was afraid for his life and is cleared. I bet you were one of the asshats who supported the killing of Travon Martin because an idiot felt his life was threatened by someone in front of him eating Skittles. In which case you would be standing and cheering for the shooter who killed all those credible threats.

      • Robert Kennedy

        And why are these outlaws armed? Because idiots like you fought against gun laws making them readily available. You create the problem and then use the problem you created to whine about being oppressed by not having the freedom to threaten the well being of rational public.

        • Joe Jones

          You are a moron.

  • Madbunny

    Is it stealing if you leave when somebody comes in and robs the place, or starts taking hostages? No, obviously and clearly not.

    Since we have no way of knowing if the person walking into a place is going to do that or not, then the obvious and intelligent decision is to not wait and find out.

    But of course, you’re conservatives; your inadequacy trumps common sense.

  • iversam

    Stealing or protecting yourself from someone who doesn’t have a freaking clue what the Constitution even says? Its the later….go read the second amendment….

  • reason_able

    If there’s, say, a tornado, or a tsunami, would you wait and pay? Would you expect your customers to pay? An openly armed person is a a clear and present danger.

    • Kirby Crowley

      An openly armed person is a PERCEIVED danger. You may FEEL otherwise, and feelings ARE important, but don’t change whether the gun actually presents a danger or a security. (And no, I don’t open carry, long or short; I think it’s silly)

      • Poiks

        So…you should wait to see if he starts shooting, then leave? Good plan.

        • Kirby Crowley

          The cars on the road around you when you are driving present an actual danger many times greater than that of some idiot open-carrying a rifle. Do you quit driving your car when you see other cars on the street?

          • Poiks

            It never ceases to amaze me how you gun nuts want to have the same goddamn discussion over and over. What’s the point? Why don’t you google your question and get a few million of the previous responses to it? Waste your own time–I won’t waste mine.

          • Kirby Crowley

            Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

            I’ve had a bit of time to think of this while I was at the gym. You have demonstrated the entire meaning of the word “bigot” in your last couple of statements. Why do you call me a “gun nut”? Yes, I have a couple of guns, but aren’t you discriminating against me for merely possessing a gun? That would be prejudice.

            I simply pointed out a couple of facts (feelings, while important, do not determine actual fact) and asked a question or two. Which you didn’t answer.

            You would be the same type of person that would walk out of a restaurant if someone of a different color walked in and sat down. You, my friend, are a bigot.

          • smb11

            Perceiving a person of color to be an automatic threat is bigoted paranoia.

            Recognizing that people with guns kill people and that there is no way to be sure what the intent or the mental stability of the person carry is, leaving may judicious.

            Remember the Florida theater shooting? From the AP:

            “Reeves is accused of shooting 43-year-old Chad Oulson in the chest at a theater in January after the two argued over Oulson’s apparent refusal to stop texting while movie previews were being shown.”

          • Tim Yagley

            Automobile drivers have something called licenses, issued by the State after competency to drive a motor vehicle has been established. Do gun owners have a similar licensing process? Uhhhh, no.

          • Kirby Crowley

            While most states don’t have mandatory licensing/training for gun ownership, most of the people I know spend hours every year, if not every month, in training. I actually believe we should have some sort of formal training available in high schools.

          • Tim Yagley

            Good, Kirby Crowley, so I can count you as being in support of mandatory gun training and registration laws? :-)

          • Kirby Crowley

            Training, I can support. There are lots of proven benefits to all with more training. Negative on the registration, since that has never been proven to add any safety or security.

          • smb11

            How is the government going to be able to call up gun owners for training to part of a “well-regulated militia” if we don’t have a database of gun owners?

          • Kirby Crowley

            Well, in order to call up a “well-regulated militia”, you’d simply announce it on TV, radio, in the newspapers, and by town crier. Because EVERYONE would be part of said militia, whether they own guns or not. So, train everyone. See? Problem solved! No need for Adolf’s lists!

          • Joe Jones

            Tim, I am curious to know what training, licensing and permitting you would require, in order for you to exercise any of your OTHER Rights spelled out in the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution.

          • Tim Yagley

            Only a moron would post a moronic statement like this, Joe Jones. Name ONE OTHER RIGHT THAT CAN KILL SOMEONE IN THE BLINK OF AN EYE.

          • Joe Jones

            My Right to carry a firearm does not translate into you being killed. Your paranoia draws that conclusion.

          • rayb_baby

            “paranoia” – Now there’s a really “loaded” word, because you prove your own by feeling the need to open carry a long gun with the belief that’s going to make you safe.

          • Joe Jones

            No. I carry a firearm because I KNOW that it greatly increases my chances of surviving a spontaneous, unprovoked attack, and it greatly reduces my chances of being selected as a victim..

            Your assumptions are telling. Where in this discussion have I EVER talked about carrying a “long gun?” Do the FACTS mean anything to you?

          • smb11

            Considering the statistics on the chances of being a victim of violent crime is 1.1%, needing to carry a weapon at all times in places is a bit of paranoia.

          • Joe Jones

            You can do anything with statistics. That 1.1% figure takes the entire country into account. you know, including places that AREN’T infested with liberals.

          • Joe Jones

            I agree! When do we start putting a program together!?

          • Guest

            So you believe that NO ONE drives a car without a license, or insurance, or training. Is that it?

          • Joe Jones

            Yep. NO ONE drives a car without training, a license and insurance.

          • Michael Moerland

            Awesome analogy, let’s treat guns like cars. License required, Insurance required, mandatory training and testing before license is attained or renewed, registration required and renewed annually.

          • Kirby Crowley

            Yes, and have mandatory training in high school, and add an amendment to the constitution guarantying the right to own an automobile. And drive it.

          • Madbunny

            If this was the conversation the NRA side was having then this entire discussion would make more sense.

            Lets stick with the car analogy. So you have a motorcycle, does that mean that because you’re allowed to have one that you need to take it into a bakery shop with you? Do you roll it down the isle at the movie theater? I used to ride, and thought at times how convenient it would be to take my bike down a promenade and park it right in front of a store. I didn’t for all the obvious reasons. (Though, If I had, I can assume people would get out of the way because that’s what you do when you see a motor vehicle driving where it’s not supposed to be.)

            Obviously not, there are times and places where it’s appropriate and inappropriate to take them and display them.
            ———————– – –

            Ultimately the real problem with open carry is that it’s mainly just a display. Peacocking essentially. Personally if I feel the need to carry I use CCW holsters. Solves my problem, doesn’t make me a target and has the side effect of making me a dozen times more likely to try to talk my way out of a problem than getting physical.

          • Kirby Crowley

            Decent analogy, except for the whole size thing. Of course, morons that carry long guns around need to be aware so they don’t knock over displays, or your cappuccino from your table at Starbucks. Yes, there are times and places that are more appropriate than others. I’m on the concealed side of the debate, but my long time Special Forces friend makes some good arguments for open carry.

          • smb11

            There are photos on the internet of teenage girls with rifles slung on their back “exercising their right” to open carry.
            We all know how level-headed all teenagers are. The responsible gun owning teenagers are going to leave their rifles at home.

          • Joe Jones

            “Ultimately the real problem with open carry is that it’s mainly just a display. Peacocking essentially.”

            Your assumption is wrong. I open carry. The reason is simple. I do not have to go to special lengths to conceal the firearm so uber-sensitive liberals will not pee their panties at the sight of a free citizen wearing a firearm. I do not open carry for display. I open carry because it takes the least amount of effort to dress for it.

            “Personally if I feel the need to carry I use CCW holsters. Solves my problem, doesn’t make me a target and has the side effect of making me a dozen times more likely to try to talk my way out of a problem than getting physical.”

            You believe that open carry encourages a person to NOT try to talk his or her way out of a confrontation? you have seen too many Clint Eastwood movies. An open carry firearm owner has NO DESIRE to face off at high noon in the middle of Main Street.

          • Madbunny

            Keep telling yourself that. I’m sure you’ll even believe it yourself. Meanwhile as you’re imagining men wearing panties… do you do that a lot? Be sure to drape a nice big target on your back.
            Since you clearly have no idea how to wear a CCW holster I’ll just have to assume you’re an uninformed idiot. Rather, an uninformed idiot that likes to imagine men wearing panties, and likes to favorably compare themselves with a rapist (per your other reply).

          • Joe Jones

            I have no idea what you are rambling on about. You are not making much sense.

            I have a CDW. I carry both open and concealed. I am a Benefactor member of the NRA and a Life member of the GOA. Your assumptions are baseless.

            Oh, and liberal males DO wear panties.

          • smb11

            As per your earlier post, I though you disliked the childish insults? Joining in on the insult-fest doesn’t strengthen your arguments.

            If you dislike it so much, don’t do it.

          • rayb_baby

            You must walk around in constant fear. I suspect you are wasting time watching everyone around you to make sure that you are safe. The reality is that you are not safe. If you were around real criminals you could easily be the target. It would take no time for them to disarm you and steal your toy.

          • Joe Jones

            You know nothing about situational awareness.

          • rayb_baby

            If you’re walking around with a long gun draped around you, then you certainly don’t!

          • Joe Jones

            You must be joking.

          • Tim Yagley

            Agree 10,000 percent, but it’ll NEVER happen, know why? The 2nd Amendment is in the Bill of Rights. As a citizen you have the right to bear arms, which unlike owning or driving a car, doesn’t require training, licensing or registration. Crazy, I know, but until the Constitution is amended, that’s the way it is.

          • Joe Jones

            A car is a privilege. Keeping and bearing arms is a RIGHT. Do you hold a permit or a license to exercise any of your other rights? Perhaps I should call the authorities when I see you walking into a church to worship God without the proper training, permits and insurance. Or maybe I will just demand that you show me proof that you are properly trained and licensed to vote. Or maybe you should just have to show your permit to speak freely, along with the college credentials you acquired in order to exercise that Right. After all, we can’t have people just exercising their Constitutional Rights willy-nilly, now can we?

          • Robert Kennedy

            Once more, having a gun is NOT a right, unless you are in the National Guard on active duty. That was settled in 1939 by the SCOTUS.

          • smb11

            It was this overwhelmingly right-wing judicial activities on the Supreme Court who changed that in 2008 and some how interpreted the Second Amendment to mean that its intent was to include the right to bear arms for self-defense. I guess the Founders forgot to add that provision.

          • smb11

            Licenses are revoked for certain driving offenses. Jail time for vehicular homicide. Laws against hit-and-run.

    • Joe Jones

      A person who is simply armed is NOT a clear and present danger. If I walk in unarmed, and you are sitting there with a steak knife in your hand slicing your Rib Eye, are YOU a “clear and present danger” because you are holding a long bladed knife with a serrated edge?

      • reason_able

        No, because it’s obvious that I’m using a tool to aid in eating. If I’m in a Target store, I don’t assume an armed person is there for target practice or hunting.

        When mass murderers start using kitchen utensils, I may revise my assessment.

        • Joe Jones

          Do you carry a pocket knife?

          • reason_able

            I don’t answer irrelevant and somewhat leading questions that have nothing to do with the issue.

        • Joe Jones

          “If I’m in a Target store, I don’t assume an armed person is there for target practice or hunting.”

          Did it ever occur to you that the person may choose to wear the firearm into the store rather than leave it unattended in his vehicle where a car break-in would then potentially put the firearm into the hands of a criminal?

          Personally, I would rather see someone carry a firearm into a Target store, than to know that it is out there in his unattended car.

          • rayb_baby

            And if it was locked away, out of sight in your trunk, the chances of it being stolen would be VERY, VERY, VERY near to zero, about the same as you encountering a hold-up inside the Target. In fact, I contend that YOU are increasing the odds of BEING the target of someone who might just want your gun.

          • Joe Jones

            It is better to have a gun and not need one, than to need a gun and not have one.

            Google: SUSAN GRATIA and A GUN COULD HAVE SAVED MY PARENTS FROM MURDER

            Now tell me about how it is better to be unarmed, rather than armed.

            “the chances of it being stolen would be VERY, VERY, VERY near to zero, about the same as you encountering a hold-up inside the Target.”

            See. you revealed your liberal bias once again. Liberals believe that we carry firearms in the hopes that we will “encounter a hold-up”. Liberals believe that we carry a gun because we have some silly Bruce Willis cop-wannabe syndrome going on, and we are hoping … no …YEARNING for an opportunity to draw our weapons on some bad guy and blow him away and save the day.

            This is the reason that liberals are brain dead blithering idiot morons. The carriers of personal DEFENSE firearms carry them for one reason: To provide the means to defend our lives and the lives of family members and friends who may be with us against an attack. I am not skilled in “kicking ass” like Bruce Lee. I am not fast and agile like Jackie Chan. so if I encounter some bad guy who picks me as his next target, my options are:

            1. Allow him to hit, stab or shoot me and possibly kill me.

            2. Level the playing field by producing a loaded firearm with the willingness to use that gun to shoot and/or kill my attacker, should he fail to discontinue his aggression against me.

            I HAVE the skills necessary to hit my target. I have absolutely no doubt that I could hit someone who is an imminent threat to me.

            I carry a gun because I am a REALIST. Unlike liberals who WISH the world was unicorns and butterflies, I KNOW that the world is a dangerous place. MOSTLY because of the spawn of LIBERALS who have been raised without any respect for humanity, life, liberty, privacy or personal security.

            I carry a gun not because I am in fear, but because I choose to live without fear, and I refuse to become a victim.

  • Raji the Green Witch

    No, it’s NOT stealing. If you just get up and walk out, mid-meal you did NOT get to enjoy the meal that you would have if you didn’t have to cut and run from danger. Therefore you got NOTHING but the few bites of the meal. It is no difference than if a customer had a heart attack at the table. They aren’t going to stop him from being taken out by the EMT’s for not paying. OR if the restaurant caught fire during the meal. they aren’t going to force patrons to pay up before leaving. The SAME principle applies here, as well. When a business has to make an insurance claim a couple of times when this happens and the insurance Company starts to refuse to pay because the business owner will NOT avoid the “unsafe condition” of his place of business then the loss of income will begin to HURT that business owner and he WILL start to refuse to serve the gun-toters.

    • Perry Levin

      I agree. The store/restaurant owner/manager has allowed a life-threatening situation develop in their establishment and we should not have to sit and wait to find out if we will die. As soon as the guns come in the door is the best time to leave.

      • Joe Jones

        The business owner can post a “NO GUNS” sign at the door, and law abiding gun owners usually respect the owner’s wishes. If there is no sign, and it is LEGAL to carry in that state, the gun owner can walk in with a gun LEGALLY. The owner can then ask the gun owner to leave, and he will of course comply. There is no need to wet your panties and abandon your meal, just because a law abiding citizen exercising his 2nd Amendment Right was not warned at the door by a sign to stay out while armed. Trust me when I say, gun owners do not want to support businesses that do not recognize their 2nd amendment Right to keep and bear arms.

        • Raji the Green Witch

          Just because something is LEGAL does NOT mean that it is right or even MORAL to do. Don’t make the mistake of confusing the two.

          • Joe Jones

            Do you fail to bless your meal in a restaurant, because the guy next to you is an atheist and would be offended by your saying a prayer?

          • Robert Kennedy

            Apples and oranges.

          • Joe Jones

            Why don’t you make up a BIG sign with those words on it, and hold it up at the next “Pride” parade.

        • smb11

          Then the businesses can decide if they want to support customers who don’t want to have to decide if that is a good guy with a gun, a bad guy with a gun or a stupid, careless guy with a gun. They want to enjoy their meal in peace.
          OR
          The business can decide to support the boobs who aren’t smart enough to realize that a gun is not a toy, it is not proof of manhood, it is not proof I am tougher than you are or any of the other million reasons people want to carry a gun into an area where there is not logical reason to have one.
          A smart and courteous gun owner knows that the proper place for a gun is a gun locker unless it is going to be used for a hunt or target practice in the near future.

          • Joe Jones

            Do you maintain an automobile insurance policy?

          • Robert Kennedy

            And that’s why gun owners should be required to carry very high indemnity insurance.

          • Joe Jones

            >”Then the businesses can decide if they want to support customers who don’t want to have to decide if that is a good guy with a gun, a bad guy with a gun or a stupid, careless guy with a gun. They want to enjoy their meal in peace.”

            Until some thug walks in with a gun and the intent to kill everyone.

            >”OR
            The business can decide to support the boobs who aren’t smart enough to realize that a gun is not a toy, ”

            Who would those boobs be? Open carriers are well aware of the fact that a gun is not a toy. That is why they do not carry a water pistol for self-defense.

            >”it is not proof of manhood, it is not proof I am tougher than you are or any of the other million reasons people want to carry a gun into an area where there is not logical reason to have one.”

            There you go, projecting YOUR emotions onto other people.

            Please post an area where there is no logical reason to have a gun for self-defense. Tell me where in America, you are GUARANTEED not to become the target of a thug, a mugger, or someone who is flying high on chemical substances.

            >”A smart and courteous gun owner knows that the proper place for a gun is a gun locker unless it is going to be used for a hunt or target practice in the near future.”

            Since the purpose for carrying a self-defense firearm is for SELF-DEFENSE, only an IDIOT would leave his gun in a locker, where it will be useless when it is needed.

        • Robert Kennedy

          Ha! There’s practically no gun nut who would leave if confronted under those circumstances. Remember that open carry types are scaredy cats who use their guns to hide their fear and feel like they are powerful.

    • Ashton

      Call it what ever you would like. It certainly appears as dine and dashing to me. I would urge any restaurant owner to call 911 on a thief such as your self.

      • Jerome Puttler

        Ashton what a fool!

      • Jerome Puttler

        Ashton, do you have more guns than Neurons?

      • Raji the Green Witch

        I would INVITE such a business owner to call the cops on me in such a situation. ALL I need to tell the cops is that I had NO idea whether the gun carriers were there to rob the place, stage a mob hit or just make a statement. After all GOOD guys with guns do NOT come with Labels they they ARE good guys. The ONLY ones who come with such labels are the COPS, themselves! And yes, I would wait for the cops, OUTSIDE at a SAFE distance from the business. I feel safer, taking my chances with the cops arresting me than risking my very life with some FOOL with a gun trying to make a political statement!

        • Joe Jones

          You are a FOOL without a gun.

          • Raji the Green Witch

            And YOU are an idiot WITH one. How can you tell the good guy from the bad guy? You DO know that not all bad guy s wear black hats and not all good guys wear white ones, don’t you?

          • Joe Jones

            It is a shame that you have been politically correct for so long, that you now have absolutely NO ability to size someone up in a matter of seconds, to determine whether they are good, or bad. I can do this, quite accurately, and repeatedly. I look at them. I listen to their words and speech patterns. I watch their body language. It doesn’t take more than a moment to determine that this is a person you should not turn your back on. Sadly, you have no such ability.

          • J. Fischer

            There are some dead police officers and FBI agents who could tell you otherwise — except they’re dead, so they can’t.

          • Joe Jones

            There are always exceptions.

    • Joe Jones

      >”No, it’s NOT stealing. If you just get up and walk out, mid-meal you did NOT get to enjoy the meal that you would have if you didn’t have to cut and run from danger. ” – Raji the Green Witch

      Raji, if the citizen who walks in with a gun is simply there to eat, there is NO DANGER, and you are using it as an excuse to get a free meal. You cannot fabricate fear, and then use that as an excuse to shirk your responsibility to pay for your meal. If you leave when I walk in with a gun, it is because you CHOSE not to enjoy your meal and succumb to your irrational fears instead.

      >”Therefore you got NOTHING but the few bites of the meal. It is no difference than if a customer had a heart attack at the table. They aren’t going to stop him from being taken out by the EMT’s for not paying. ” – Raji the Green Witch

      A heart attack would be REAL. your fear of an inanimate object which is no actual threat to you is imaginary.

      >”OR if the restaurant caught fire during the meal. they aren’t going to force patrons to pay up before leaving. The SAME principle applies here, as well. ” – Raji the Green Witch

      No, Raji. The same principals DO NOT apply. you are comparing a situation in which you are FORCEd to leave, with a situation in which you CHOOSE to leave. You could sit there and eat your dinner, and the off-duty plain clothed security guard at the next table is not going to shoot you.

      >”When a business has to make an insurance claim a couple of times when this happens and the insurance Company starts to refuse to pay because the business owner will NOT avoid the “unsafe condition” of his place of business then the loss of income will begin to HURT that business owner and he WILL start to refuse to serve the gun-toters.” – Raji the Green Witch

      Dream on.

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