In this clip, Rachel Maddow thoroughly debunks irrational assertions about extended clips from Grandpappy Gun-Nut, Wayne LaPierre. LaPierre, recently interviewed by Fox’s Megyn Kelly, contends that there’s no reason to limit the number of rounds in magazines because shooters can switch them out “in a second” anyway.
Watch the video, courtesy of MSNBC:
>> thanks you for joining us. happy friday. first thing you need to know this friday is there is such a thing as competitive lock picking. right here one are looking at the winning entry in the 2009 kp lock picking competition. kp stands for key picking. which i guess is a particular kind of lock picking. we are within is here a highly skilled human being getting the better of a very strong lock. at least that sort of what it seems to indicate on the caption on this youtube video. our champion here is triumphing over a lock with a close six mushroom driver pin set up of which two are serrated as well.
>>> this guy loves both minnesota hocking and competitive lock picking. you can can see from his shirt. he is solving a lk that has five pins. three serrated regular drivers and two serrated spool hybrids. that sort of thing apparently takes a while. this is very skilled work even if the ethic of this particular sport is that you do not show your face while doing it.
>> this guy, claims that he just started lock picking. we are witnessing day one of his competitive lock picking career. he doesn’t really seem ready for competition yet. certainly not for a pair of serrated spool hybrids. but as you can see, sort of getting there. now behold, there was also a close cousin to competitive lock picking, which is escaping from handcuffs for fun. the escaping from handcuff sport starts kind of like competitive lock picking but then get weird in a hurry. like, you know, a lot of the — the shirtless thing. put on a third, man. this is youtube. we can see you. we are all very impressed by your skills. we are impressed by your pecs. now these two are on a stage, with an emcee. racing to get out of your lock picks. this is pseudo magic. pick the lock. it is a showman thing that people have done for a very long time. modern innovations in the field of things you are not supposed to get out of have led to other can kinds of escapology skills as well. you can find on-line a bunch of how-tos for how to get yourself out of new fangled zip tie handcuffs, used particularly for crowd control. particular videos of guys showing off how fast they can get out of their plastic zip ties. this is one of my favorite corners of the internet. i don’t know how to do these things but i love watching people do it. i love this stuff. one thing that does not happen because there is a college of lock picking, one of the things that does not happen because we know there are humans o out there who can do these cool human tricks. even though this stuff exists and we can prove it by watching people do this stuff on-line, nobody, as a result of that, says, well, we shouldn’t use handcuffs any more in our country. we should not lock doors any more. we shouldn’t have door locks any more, because after false sense of security. because clearly there are people who can defeat these things called locks. skbrust becau just because we live in a society with a few guys who can pick locks doesn’t mean we are in a don’t lock your door age. and people jump over cars. people jump over moving cars. this is a thing. and please, please do not try this at home. the fact that this is a thing, this a thing that exists has not led to us as a country saying clearly we shouldn’t have cross walks because now people jump over cars. yes. some people jump over cars but not everybody can jump over cars and not everybody does jump over cars. so yes, cross walks are still a bright idea. there is something to be said for respecting the exceptional as exceptional. for refusing to tailor policy for everybody because of the margins. i mean, arguing from those margins are fundamental against the case of gun reform always but particularly this year, you have heard it a million times. this argument we shouldn’t have new laws about guns because criminals do not care about our laws. criminals will break those laws and therefore we should not have them.
>> most crimes are committed nearly 90% of crimes are committed with guns that are bought illegally. criminals do crime. they don’t pay attention to our laws.
>> criminals will never go through a background check.
>> no. people committing gun crimes and murpderring people with guns are not getting them under the law anyway.
>> we want to tell our citizens, oh, no, no, no,er with going to limit your ability to protect yourself and your family. you’re law-abiding. and these animals, these wolves at the door, who don’t play by the rules, they don’t have rules. there are no rules.
>> why is this the argument for gun laws when it is it not the argument for any other kind of law? nobody says, well, why bother having laws against murderer robbery since murderers and robbery ris won’t respect the laws. once they are broken, what good are they? now, ome part of the country are deciding that ats dumb argument. now that some parts of the country can make the argument but you won’t win with that argument and we will enact new gun laws anyway and the anti-gun argument is evolving. evolving among the criminals will break laws argument and they are getting into hair harry li harry houdini argument.
>> his mother was a legal gun owner. how do you know this person would not have obeyed the law, and then adam lanza, would have been limited to ten rounds instead of 30.
>> there is no evidence that anything would have changed.
>> what the nra guy is arguing there, from t.o. a very good question from a host on fox news, is not that we should not put limits. because reloading magazines is no problem. it makes no difference if you have 10 round or 30 rounds because people have skills to swap in new magazines so fast, it only takes a second. makes no difference. you should see these guys swapping magazines out and he is right. there are people who competitively reload firearms. that’s a sport in the way that competitive lock picking is a sport. look how fast can i reload my gun. google it. it is a sport. actually, an million people. it is a specific sport that some people do. but some people do it. should laws apply to everybody in the country. this is the unusual and special can skills of the half dozen guys who do this thing with fast reloading. or should our laws reflect what happens in real life? the shooter who opened fire in tucson when he tried to kill congressman g gabby giffords. he shot 31 rounds. he was stopped only when he tried to reload. the size of his magazine determined how many bullets co-fire before he was stopped. he had 30 plus the one in chamber and that was it for him. the shooter who opened fire in sandy hook did so with high capacity magazines. firing 154 bullets in less than five minutes. the use of high capacity magazines that allow somebody to fire that many bull net so short a time has been central to the sandy hook parents argument for why we ought to change the law.
>> we have learned that in the time it took him to reload in one of the classrooms, 11 children were able to escape. we asked ourselves everyday, every minute, if those magazines had held ten round, forcing the shooter to reload at least six more times, would our children be alive today.
>> o would our children be alive today? parents in newtown have been asking that question, making that argument really. since the massacre at sandy hook elementary school, four states have passed new regulations on guns. new york state, connecticut, and maryland. each passed a ban on assault weapons and a limit on the size of ammunition magazines. colorado did 7b ban assault weapons but even colorado went there in the size of magazines. colorado set a magazine size limit of 15 bullet. and as a policy matter, you can see what aim is here. in colorado, in the aurora massacre, the gunman there, used a huge 100 bullet capacity drum magazine. a magazine he bought legally. the tucson shooter, again in the gabby giffords aassassination used a clip that he bought legally. the newtown shooter used magazines that his mother bought legally. had this law expired in 2004, none of those magazines would have been purchased easily and legally. yes, maybe they could be found illegally or on the in-the-know gun enthusiasts. and maybe for some the size of the magazine doesn’t matter at all because they are magazine quick can-change artist that show off on the youtube. but likely not. banning expanded clips make it harder to get. your tucson, aurora, newtown shooter is less likely to have them. so when they find that they cannot reload fast enough to stop someone from stopping them. so four states now have taken action to go back to the kinds of limits on extended magazines that used to be in place for a decade until 2004 when george w. bush and republican led congress let the assault weapons ban expire. limits on magazines, are happening. limits are magazines are becoming real. four states already. and that apparently is freaking out the nra. if they have to rely on harry houdini argument now about this guy being the kind of guy we should think of as a typical gun user in america. rely on the harry houdini arguments to get out of the bind of their own making, you can tell, you know they are running out 6 arguments. joining me now is elizabeth estes. she is is the congresswoman representing newtown, connecticut. thanks for your time.
>> thanks, rachel. glad to be here.
>> we spoke before the connecticut state legislature moved to pass new gun laws in your state. now your governor signed those new laws into effect. are you satisfied with what your state has done? do you think this is the right package of reforms?
>> i do think it is a great package of reforms and one of the things that is so heartening about it, can which ch is here in connecticut, and you have talked about it, this is a big gun state. the home of arms manufacturing in united states. part of our history. my district in particular is full of hunters, sportsmen and in this state we got bipartisan cooperation to pass a very strong gun safety law that has the elements i would like to see in washington. banning of assault weapons, banning of high capacity magazines, vigorous mental health program and really looking at what we can do across the board with universal criminal background can checks. really the foundation of what we must have the at national level.
>> on that issue of extended magazines, because i highlighted that in the introduction and because we are seeing the nra’s arguments on the issue sort of deinvolve i think as more states act to limit high capacity magazines, how do you think connecticut is able to get bipartisan agreement on that? i mean, obviously connecticut democrats will move forward without republicans at all. they have the advantage in both houses of the state legislature and there is a democratic governor. they were able to get governors on board with bipartisan support. is that due olympic is that duplicable?
>> i think a number of republicanes who voted for this bill knew some of the families in newtown and how can they look these people in the eye? as you mentioned in your introduction, 11 children escaped out of that classroom when adam lanza was changing magazines. 11 lives were saved by the real life example of what happens when you run out of bullets in a magazine and in a chamber. it has real-life consequencees. how could legislators look them in the eye and say, i’m not doing everything i possibly can so save another family, another community from this sort of heartache.
>> the clip i played of the one newtown mom in the introduction there, one of the things she said yesterday at the bill signing is that she feels like the families who have chosen to be advocates on this, and not all of them have, but families that have chosen to ask for public policy reform in response to what happened for them, they feel they have been treated with respect. they feel like they have been heard. they feel like they have been listened to. it is hartening to hear that. for a can country tied up with the families and what they have gone through. when you work with the newtown survivors and people in that town which you represent, do you feel like that’s broadly held? like people feel they are being heard and respected, in connecticut and nationally?
>> i think, again, when you get people to think back to core principles, how can can we protect our children? when you look at 30,000 people lost every year, over half of them sue sides, there’s almost no one in this country who didn’t know someone killed by a gun. and when you get people into a problem-solving mode, think, what can you do? what can can we do? what can we, as americans do together to protect our children? to protect our communities? then we stop the demonizing. i’ve been able to engage gun owners in my district who are highly supportive, particularly around universal criminal background checks for all sales and around federal felonies for trafficking and purchasing. they know they are essential tools for law enforcement. and face it, rachel, if we are going to keep guns out of hands of the criminals, we have to ask who they are when they buy guns. it just makes sense.
>> you did not know this would be such a focus of your time in congress, i’m sure. but have you taken this up with as much as anyone could have expected. thank you for keeping us apprised of what you are doing.
>> thank you. and thank you for your commit many to continuing to bring this issue in front of the american people. it really helps.
>> thank you. all right.
>>> good news tonight for all of you separation of church and state fans out there in cable tv land. less good news for family planning sex ed crowd. but if you like the establishment clause, we have a story for you. please, stay tuned. i’m